Comments on: Love is (sometimes) a Battlefield. http://american-family.org/2006/10/09/love-is-sometimes-a-battlefield/ Thu, 09 Feb 2012 01:51:15 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: JB http://american-family.org/2006/10/09/love-is-sometimes-a-battlefield/comment-page-1/#comment-3374 JB Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:08:06 +0000 http://american-family.org/2006/10/09/love-is-sometimes-a-battlefield/#comment-3374 Sarah V. expressed above what I was going to say: in my (white) family, "parental affection" (which was strong and constant) was often expressed in the same way you say that "A's people" express it. By telling me that a B+ was in fact worse than a D or an F, because it meant I wasn't trying hard enough, whereas a failing grade meant I honestly didn't understand the material. And that means that to this day, a comment less than exceptional-brilliant-outstanding is a blow, and a comment like exceptional-brilliant-outstanding is more like, meh, okay, next? It's probably at least partly me, because, as I said, I was never in doubt that my parents loved me and wanted the best for me. But perfection is a lot to ask of a child when the parent is always the one in the position of control. Sarah V. expressed above what I was going to say: in my (white) family, “parental affection” (which was strong and constant) was often expressed in the same way you say that “A’s people” express it. By telling me that a B+ was in fact worse than a D or an F, because it meant I wasn’t trying hard enough, whereas a failing grade meant I honestly didn’t understand the material. And that means that to this day, a comment less than exceptional-brilliant-outstanding is a blow, and a comment like exceptional-brilliant-outstanding is more like, meh, okay, next?

It’s probably at least partly me, because, as I said, I was never in doubt that my parents loved me and wanted the best for me. But perfection is a lot to ask of a child when the parent is always the one in the position of control.

]]> By: Jack http://american-family.org/2006/10/09/love-is-sometimes-a-battlefield/comment-page-1/#comment-3370 Jack Tue, 10 Oct 2006 14:13:18 +0000 http://american-family.org/2006/10/09/love-is-sometimes-a-battlefield/#comment-3370 Culture clashes don't just cross racial lines and I think compromises can sometimes work out better than either extreme. My parents and my wife's parents are both white and from the same geographic area, but their philosophies don't always match up. Her parents tend to put a lot of importance on money. They were uneasy when we announced we were pursuing an adoption at our age (late-20s) when we haven't "established" ourselves and I think they were horrified when Jill let it slip that I might become a stay-at-home dad. My parents, who both did work they hated for years to support our family want me to do work I enjoy and are happy if Jill and I are happy. Jill and I meet somewhere in the middle, where we'll probably never be rich, but we're very responsible with the money we have. Culture clashes don’t just cross racial lines and I think compromises can sometimes work out better than either extreme. My parents and my wife’s parents are both white and from the same geographic area, but their philosophies don’t always match up. Her parents tend to put a lot of importance on money. They were uneasy when we announced we were pursuing an adoption at our age (late-20s) when we haven’t “established” ourselves and I think they were horrified when Jill let it slip that I might become a stay-at-home dad. My parents, who both did work they hated for years to support our family want me to do work I enjoy and are happy if Jill and I are happy.

Jill and I meet somewhere in the middle, where we’ll probably never be rich, but we’re very responsible with the money we have.

]]> By: Sarah V. http://american-family.org/2006/10/09/love-is-sometimes-a-battlefield/comment-page-1/#comment-3363 Sarah V. Tue, 10 Oct 2006 06:32:58 +0000 http://american-family.org/2006/10/09/love-is-sometimes-a-battlefield/#comment-3363 You know, having read your previous posts - especially the first one - and then this one, it seems to me this is actually two different debates getting treated as though they were the same debate. “Should we push M to do her best rather than letting her slack off?” is NOT the same question as “Should we insist that we will accept nothing less than a perfect score from her and, if she fails to get anything less than straight As, then that _is_ a failure and we will insist that she does it over and over again until she gets it right?” No, I’m not Asian. But I do come from a family in which the prevailing culture was in favour of academic success, in which nothing less than high grades in every subject every time was quite good enough. So I don’t think my opinions on the subject have to do with white privilege – they have to do with having the experience of growing up with that message. And you know what? That upbringing didn’t lead to me being proud of my successes. It led to the opposite. I have never been able to feel proud of my successes, because there was always a feeling that they weren’t successes so much as me having just done what was expected, very good, and now better make sure you do the same again next time. Oh, I don’t mean that to sound as though my mother was horrible about it – she was delighted when I brought home a high grade, and I got lots of praise along with the pressure. And I daresay some of this problem is my perfectionist personality and the way I respond to things. But there _was_ this constant feeling of having to achieve. And the result of that is that I have never really been able to look at a top grade and get that feeling of ‘Wow! I’m thrilled!’ At best it would mean relief – I’d done what was expected of me, I wouldn’t get told off or have to live with my mother being disappointed in me. At worst, it would mean a feeling of dread because I knew I wouldn’t be likely to manage such a good grade next time around and I knew that it would be expected of me. There are plenty of other things in my life that I’ve learned to be proud of along the way, but, to this day – and up to and including a first class honours degree followed by a medical degree – my academic work has never been one of them. Does this mean that I think I should have been allowed to slack off, or that I plan to let my son do so? Hell, no. I certainly will encourage him to be the best he can be. But… I will encourage him to be the best _he_ can be, not some sort of best that I’ve dreamed up and want him to be. See the difference? You know, having read your previous posts – especially the first one – and then this one, it seems to me this is actually two different debates getting treated as though they were the same debate. “Should we push M to do her best rather than letting her slack off?” is NOT the same question as “Should we insist that we will accept nothing less than a perfect score from her and, if she fails to get anything less than straight As, then that _is_ a failure and we will insist that she does it over and over again until she gets it right?”

No, I’m not Asian. But I do come from a family in which the prevailing culture was in favour of academic success, in which nothing less than high grades in every subject every time was quite good enough. So I don’t think my opinions on the subject have to do with white privilege – they have to do with having the experience of growing up with that message. And you know what? That upbringing didn’t lead to me being proud of my successes. It led to the opposite. I have never been able to feel proud of my successes, because there was always a feeling that they weren’t successes so much as me having just done what was expected, very good, and now better make sure you do the same again next time.

Oh, I don’t mean that to sound as though my mother was horrible about it – she was delighted when I brought home a high grade, and I got lots of praise along with the pressure. And I daresay some of this problem is my perfectionist personality and the way I respond to things. But there _was_ this constant feeling of having to achieve. And the result of that is that I have never really been able to look at a top grade and get that feeling of ‘Wow! I’m thrilled!’ At best it would mean relief – I’d done what was expected of me, I wouldn’t get told off or have to live with my mother being disappointed in me. At worst, it would mean a feeling of dread because I knew I wouldn’t be likely to manage such a good grade next time around and I knew that it would be expected of me. There are plenty of other things in my life that I’ve learned to be proud of along the way, but, to this day – and up to and including a first class honours degree followed by a medical degree – my academic work has never been one of them.

Does this mean that I think I should have been allowed to slack off, or that I plan to let my son do so? Hell, no. I certainly will encourage him to be the best he can be. But… I will encourage him to be the best _he_ can be, not some sort of best that I’ve dreamed up and want him to be. See the difference?

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