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	<title>Comments on: Love is (sometimes) a Battlefield.</title>
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	<link>http://american-family.org/2006/10/09/love-is-sometimes-a-battlefield/</link>
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	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 05:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: JB</title>
		<link>http://american-family.org/2006/10/09/love-is-sometimes-a-battlefield/#comment-3374</link>
		<dc:creator>JB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:08:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://american-family.org/2006/10/09/love-is-sometimes-a-battlefield/#comment-3374</guid>
		<description>Sarah V. expressed above what I was going to say: in my (white) family, "parental affection" (which was strong and constant) was often expressed in the same way you say that "A's people" express it. By telling me that a B+ was in fact worse than a D or an F, because it meant I wasn't trying hard enough, whereas a failing grade meant I honestly didn't understand the material. And that means that to this day, a comment less than exceptional-brilliant-outstanding is a blow, and a comment like exceptional-brilliant-outstanding is more like, meh, okay, next? 

It's probably at least partly me, because, as I said, I was never in doubt that my parents loved me and wanted the best for me. But perfection is a lot to ask of a child when the parent is always the one in the position of control.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarah V. expressed above what I was going to say: in my (white) family, &#8220;parental affection&#8221; (which was strong and constant) was often expressed in the same way you say that &#8220;A&#8217;s people&#8221; express it. By telling me that a B+ was in fact worse than a D or an F, because it meant I wasn&#8217;t trying hard enough, whereas a failing grade meant I honestly didn&#8217;t understand the material. And that means that to this day, a comment less than exceptional-brilliant-outstanding is a blow, and a comment like exceptional-brilliant-outstanding is more like, meh, okay, next? </p>
<p>It&#8217;s probably at least partly me, because, as I said, I was never in doubt that my parents loved me and wanted the best for me. But perfection is a lot to ask of a child when the parent is always the one in the position of control.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://american-family.org/2006/10/09/love-is-sometimes-a-battlefield/#comment-3370</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Oct 2006 14:13:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://american-family.org/2006/10/09/love-is-sometimes-a-battlefield/#comment-3370</guid>
		<description>Culture clashes don't just cross racial lines and I think compromises can sometimes work out better than either extreme. My parents and my wife's parents are both white and from the same geographic area, but their philosophies don't always match up. Her parents tend to put a lot of importance on money. They were uneasy when we announced we were pursuing an adoption at our age (late-20s) when we haven't "established" ourselves and I think they were horrified when Jill let it slip that I might become a stay-at-home dad. My parents, who both did work they hated for years to support our family want me to do work I enjoy and are happy if Jill and I are happy.

Jill and I meet somewhere in the middle, where we'll probably never be rich, but we're very responsible with the money we have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Culture clashes don&#8217;t just cross racial lines and I think compromises can sometimes work out better than either extreme. My parents and my wife&#8217;s parents are both white and from the same geographic area, but their philosophies don&#8217;t always match up. Her parents tend to put a lot of importance on money. They were uneasy when we announced we were pursuing an adoption at our age (late-20s) when we haven&#8217;t &#8220;established&#8221; ourselves and I think they were horrified when Jill let it slip that I might become a stay-at-home dad. My parents, who both did work they hated for years to support our family want me to do work I enjoy and are happy if Jill and I are happy.</p>
<p>Jill and I meet somewhere in the middle, where we&#8217;ll probably never be rich, but we&#8217;re very responsible with the money we have.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah V.</title>
		<link>http://american-family.org/2006/10/09/love-is-sometimes-a-battlefield/#comment-3363</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah V.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Oct 2006 06:32:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://american-family.org/2006/10/09/love-is-sometimes-a-battlefield/#comment-3363</guid>
		<description>You know, having read your previous posts - especially the first one - and then this one, it seems to me this is actually two different debates getting treated as though they were the same debate.  “Should we push M to do her best rather than letting her slack off?” is NOT the same question as “Should we insist that we will accept nothing less than a perfect score from her and, if she fails to get anything less than straight As, then that _is_ a failure and we will insist that she does it over and over again until she gets it right?”

No, I’m not Asian.  But I do come from a family in which the prevailing culture was in favour of academic success, in which nothing less than high grades in every subject every time was quite good enough.  So I don’t think my opinions on the subject have to do with white privilege – they have to do with having the experience of growing up with that message.  And you know what?  That upbringing didn’t lead to me being proud of my successes.  It led to the opposite.  I have never been able to feel proud of my successes, because there was always a feeling that they weren’t successes so much as me having just done what was expected, very good, and now better make sure you do the same again next time.  

Oh, I don’t mean that to sound as though my mother was horrible about it – she was delighted when I brought home a high grade, and I got lots of praise along with the pressure.  And I daresay some of this problem is my perfectionist personality and the way I respond to things.  But there _was_ this constant feeling of having to achieve.  And the result of that is that I have never really been able to look at a top grade and get that feeling of ‘Wow!  I’m thrilled!’  At best it would mean relief – I’d done what was expected of me, I wouldn’t get told off or have to live with my mother being disappointed in me.  At worst, it would mean a feeling of dread because I knew I wouldn’t be likely to manage such a good grade next time around and I knew that it would be expected of me.  There are plenty of other things in my life that I’ve learned to be proud of along the way, but, to this day – and up to and including a first class honours degree followed by a medical degree – my academic work has never been one of them.

Does this mean that I think I should have been allowed to slack off, or that I plan to let my son do so?  Hell, no.  I certainly will encourage him to be the best he can be.  But… I will encourage him to be the best _he_ can be, not some sort of best that I’ve dreamed up and want him to be.  See the difference?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, having read your previous posts - especially the first one - and then this one, it seems to me this is actually two different debates getting treated as though they were the same debate.  “Should we push M to do her best rather than letting her slack off?” is NOT the same question as “Should we insist that we will accept nothing less than a perfect score from her and, if she fails to get anything less than straight As, then that _is_ a failure and we will insist that she does it over and over again until she gets it right?”</p>
<p>No, I’m not Asian.  But I do come from a family in which the prevailing culture was in favour of academic success, in which nothing less than high grades in every subject every time was quite good enough.  So I don’t think my opinions on the subject have to do with white privilege – they have to do with having the experience of growing up with that message.  And you know what?  That upbringing didn’t lead to me being proud of my successes.  It led to the opposite.  I have never been able to feel proud of my successes, because there was always a feeling that they weren’t successes so much as me having just done what was expected, very good, and now better make sure you do the same again next time.  </p>
<p>Oh, I don’t mean that to sound as though my mother was horrible about it – she was delighted when I brought home a high grade, and I got lots of praise along with the pressure.  And I daresay some of this problem is my perfectionist personality and the way I respond to things.  But there _was_ this constant feeling of having to achieve.  And the result of that is that I have never really been able to look at a top grade and get that feeling of ‘Wow!  I’m thrilled!’  At best it would mean relief – I’d done what was expected of me, I wouldn’t get told off or have to live with my mother being disappointed in me.  At worst, it would mean a feeling of dread because I knew I wouldn’t be likely to manage such a good grade next time around and I knew that it would be expected of me.  There are plenty of other things in my life that I’ve learned to be proud of along the way, but, to this day – and up to and including a first class honours degree followed by a medical degree – my academic work has never been one of them.</p>
<p>Does this mean that I think I should have been allowed to slack off, or that I plan to let my son do so?  Hell, no.  I certainly will encourage him to be the best he can be.  But… I will encourage him to be the best _he_ can be, not some sort of best that I’ve dreamed up and want him to be.  See the difference?</p>
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		<title>By: Angela</title>
		<link>http://american-family.org/2006/10/09/love-is-sometimes-a-battlefield/#comment-3362</link>
		<dc:creator>Angela</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Oct 2006 05:47:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://american-family.org/2006/10/09/love-is-sometimes-a-battlefield/#comment-3362</guid>
		<description>Interestingly enough it's pretty much the same on our side yet our cultures are very similar (different hispanic backgrounds) - although it makes me uneasy I lean towards a mix of self-led and unschooling but my husband is totally uncomfortable with that.  We are homeschooling this year (traveling) and he is in charge of the math and the way he handles "class" is sooooo diferent from my way...I clench my jaw and grind my teeth just listening in but he is totally vested in making sure she "gets it" and gets 100 on her test whereas I'm more of "hey...that is cool you understood the history lesson and lets see how it compares to what we've been seeing on our travels but don't really care if she totally recalls it on a test" mode which drives him nuts.  He sees our daughter's education in the same light your husband sees "M's" 

BTW, I had to laugh at the lack of tact comment...that is my culture to a "t" - I went to visit a few years ago and EVERYONE (people I had not seen since I was a kid) would preface their salutations with "Oh My How fat you are/have gotten" - really nice! NOT!LOL  My family and relatives don't mince words when they talk...hard to get used to if you are not one of us!LOL

In our case is not necessarily a difference in culture but in the way we view education and success.  The reason I don't push it is because I don't think it is hurting our daughter (he expects her do well but is a very loving daddy) and well...I'm a total underachiever and lack ambition (I did really well in school by the way!LOL) and he is focused and gets where he wants to go so maybe there is something to the way he does it.  

Also...we "adopted" the no shoes inside the house many years ago but I remember the first time I walked into my friend's house (Chinese) and everyone started taking their shoes off.  I kept thinking "are my socks clean...do my shoes stink?"  It took some getting used to for our hispanic families...but now even my sister in law does it in her house too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interestingly enough it&#8217;s pretty much the same on our side yet our cultures are very similar (different hispanic backgrounds) - although it makes me uneasy I lean towards a mix of self-led and unschooling but my husband is totally uncomfortable with that.  We are homeschooling this year (traveling) and he is in charge of the math and the way he handles &#8220;class&#8221; is sooooo diferent from my way&#8230;I clench my jaw and grind my teeth just listening in but he is totally vested in making sure she &#8220;gets it&#8221; and gets 100 on her test whereas I&#8217;m more of &#8220;hey&#8230;that is cool you understood the history lesson and lets see how it compares to what we&#8217;ve been seeing on our travels but don&#8217;t really care if she totally recalls it on a test&#8221; mode which drives him nuts.  He sees our daughter&#8217;s education in the same light your husband sees &#8220;M&#8217;s&#8221; </p>
<p>BTW, I had to laugh at the lack of tact comment&#8230;that is my culture to a &#8220;t&#8221; - I went to visit a few years ago and EVERYONE (people I had not seen since I was a kid) would preface their salutations with &#8220;Oh My How fat you are/have gotten&#8221; - really nice! NOT!LOL  My family and relatives don&#8217;t mince words when they talk&#8230;hard to get used to if you are not one of us!LOL</p>
<p>In our case is not necessarily a difference in culture but in the way we view education and success.  The reason I don&#8217;t push it is because I don&#8217;t think it is hurting our daughter (he expects her do well but is a very loving daddy) and well&#8230;I&#8217;m a total underachiever and lack ambition (I did really well in school by the way!LOL) and he is focused and gets where he wants to go so maybe there is something to the way he does it.  </p>
<p>Also&#8230;we &#8220;adopted&#8221; the no shoes inside the house many years ago but I remember the first time I walked into my friend&#8217;s house (Chinese) and everyone started taking their shoes off.  I kept thinking &#8220;are my socks clean&#8230;do my shoes stink?&#8221;  It took some getting used to for our hispanic families&#8230;but now even my sister in law does it in her house too.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan</title>
		<link>http://american-family.org/2006/10/09/love-is-sometimes-a-battlefield/#comment-3361</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Oct 2006 05:31:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://american-family.org/2006/10/09/love-is-sometimes-a-battlefield/#comment-3361</guid>
		<description>cagey333, put a BIG SIGN "No shoes inside please" and a nice shoe rack next to your front door. Works for us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cagey333, put a BIG SIGN &#8220;No shoes inside please&#8221; and a nice shoe rack next to your front door. Works for us.</p>
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