So today in the blistering I took the girls heat to the park. On our way there, I noticed two other kids heading in that general direction too. They ran out into the street without looking for cars and proceded to weave back and forth between the sidewalk and the road.
When we got to the park, I realized these kids were there with no adult supervision at all. In addition to playing with M, they were all up in my business. I was the only other adult in the park and there were no kids there besides those two and my kids.
The girl was 4 and the boy was 7. They were not related to each other, but obviously knew each other and were friends. I asked the little girl if her mom knew she was there without an adult and she said her mom told her to go to the park with the boy. (Later I talked with a friend who lives a few doors down who confirmed that the little girl had just had a birthday and was barely four.)
After they told M how old they were, I didn’t feel comfortable leaving them alone in park, so we stayed until they went home. When they finally left, we trailed behind them until they went into a house about three blocks from the park.
While we live in a nice enough neighborhood, the road by the park is a busy one. Not only that, there are frequently older people who play basketball there. I was afraid they would get hit by a car or they would approach some less than trustworthy adult the same way they had approached me.
I consider myself to be a fairly laid back parent, but there is no way in hell I would allow M to go to the park alone with a 7 year old. I felt uncomfortable with the whole situation, but still, I didn’t go up to the house to talk to the parents. I couldn’t decide what the most appropriate course of action was.
I am curious what other people would have done. Do you think it is ok for a 4 year old to go to the park three blocks from home with another little kid?
Very nice of you to stay with them — man, do they have a piss-poor excuse for parents! One of our neighbors is like that. The 5 year old is often outside with responsibility to watch the 3 year old. Um yeah, she’s definitely making that her top priority. It ends up that the other parents on the block (who are always outside watching their own kids) end up watching their kids all the time. It makes me sad that I never see those neighbors playing with their kids (mostly they are alone or with the nanny). And of course, they just had their FIFTH child! Sigh…
Absolutely not appropriate in my opinion. The only place I could think of it possibly being appropriate is in their own fenced in back yard, and even then, with a parent looking in every few minutes!
Julie
No, it isn’t appropriate.
7 and 4 are not developmentally old enough to handle many situations on their own.
There was even a study, not that long ago, that indicated that 12 years old is the age that starts to truly comprehend something like traffic safety.
Also, kids that young are still completely caught up in the “if something bad happens it is my fault” magical thinking.
Sucks all the way around.
Me, I think I would make note of the address and anonymously report it to the child welfare…
no I don’t do that easily or off the cuff, I have made two such phone calls in my life and both concerned really inappropriate acting out –
it may not work etc. etc. but I really do think that is what I might do these days…especially when an age like four is involved.
Hopefully the system would work like it should and simply offer supports and information to a parent who is not making good choices but could.
Hellllllll Nooooo!
I think you did the right thing. I myself would have taken in a step further and called the police to have the kids escorted home, that way the parents might then understand how dangerous the situation could have become.
what are people thinking?????? 7 and 4. Christ on toast (to borrow an expression from Mrs. Figby). i can’t even get my 12 year old niece to bike over the 6 blocks from her house, which is the other parenting extreme, but this is a sick, scary world and a 7 year old should not be in charge of a 4 year old.
Not a parent …yet. But HELL NOOOO would I let my 4 yr old cruise the neighborhood without supervision. What kind of judegement does a 7 yr old have? That’s insane!
Hmmm … Stephanie had a good idea.
NO WAY. that’s INSANE.
I would have called the police. I would stress out too much. How many other days do they do this? What if there was a pedophile trolling the park for kids?
The sad thing is that if the parent/parents don’t have the good sense to know that a 4 and 7 year old can’t wander the streets alone then I’d imagine anything you do to improve the situation will fall on deaf ears. I’d do it anyway though – a four and 7 year old are certainly worth the effort even if it is in vain.
No way. I would never have left that. I would have called the police. This could be an isolated incident but it could be that mom sent the kids away unsupervised because she was high or drunk or is simply lacking in parenting skills.
i’m with karen. that’s just crazy.
You did the right thing! how scary for both of them!
That is very scary. I would definitely have called the police-not child welfare (I worked in the system too long, sorry-and I realize that the police will call cw, but that’s after they take the kids home and talk to the parents).
Several years ago a 4yo boy in St. Paul went across the street to the park with his older siblings and cousins-about a dozen kids, some sort of family party was happening at the house and the teens took the little ones to the park. When they returned home, the mother immediately said “where is the 4yo” and everyone ran back to the park. It was terrible. Everyone cared, no one was trying to do the wrong thing, but they were teenagers at a family party and got distracted. The boy had been picked up by a pedophile, raped in the back of his van, and dumped back at the park (with an ice cream cone as I recall?!). It really can happen that fast, and it amazes me that there are still parents who don’t realize that.
The rapist was caught, but of course that doesn’t change the trauma.
~lmc
I grew up in Taiwan and over there it’s still very common for young children to go out alone.
But now in the US, I agree there is no way I would ever let my kids go out alone.
Hell to the No, as another wonderful Mom (Whitney Houston) would say
That mom needs help, and if I thought telling her would help, I’d say go for it — but I have the feeling she wouldn’t listen to you.
And what if you were some pedifile instead of the nice mom you are? Who knows who they could have innocently allowed to follow them home???
Too scary.
Absolutely not. Next time ring the police. Those parents have got to hear from someone that this is a no go. And the mere fact you saw them before the park going into traffic just underscores how easily an accident could occur.
Next time call the police right away
I wouldn’t let a 7 year old go to the park alone, let alone think they can chaperone a 4 year old. I don’t understand that at all. Hell, we’ve recently seen a child taken from her hotel room!
I think I would have done exactly as you did, because that is how I am, but then after thinking about it some more I would go back to the park and if they turn up alone again I would call the police and say there are two young children here alone. The officer(s) can escort the kids home and hopefully that would scare the parents into thinking this very dangerous lack of supervision through and it won’t happen again.
I know exactly which boy you’re talking about but not the girl.
It’s a hard call (not whether they should go the park or not, that part is easy, hell no). But I always try to not do any harm. Could they be beaten if they bring a cop to the front door? Are they better off at the park than at home with the pedophile who lives with them? My husband and I have seen a lot of poor supervision and neglect in our neighborhood. My husband is a mandated reporter (must report any abuse he sees to the authorities as part of his job), but most of it doesn’t rise to the reporting level, even though it seems potentially life threatening. (With one family in particular, I used to think, Crap, I’ve forgotten my CPR. I hope I don’t have to use it). Can you get the gossip from the neighbors as to what is going on? Then you can make a more informed decision if it happens again.
I am not sure. IF the road was really that busy, I don’t think so. But then again, I let my kids play out in our yard alone, so I’m a bad mom!
Wow, I have a 4 year old and would never in my life let him go to a park 3 blocks aways. Even when my 7 year old is in front of my house I am always outside keeping and eye out.
I think it was extremly irresponsible for the mother not only to let her 4 year old out of her house, but she also put some responsibillity to the 7 year old. I wonder what the 7 year old mom would think of it?
In my neigborhood (different country) all the kids play outside and from 5 upwards alone on the street. and there are al ot of children that range alone in the park Very happy to live like that!
Hell no!
In my 20s (and teenage yrs) I would have confronted the parent (nicely but I would have said something) and/or called the cops. Now (late 30s) I don’t bother w/ the parent AT ALL and either call CPS (I too don’t do this lightly but I’m a mandated reporter) or the cops. In this particular case I would have called the cops and explained I had two unsupervised little kids and that I was afraid to leave them alone.
My youngest is now 6, but I wouldn’t even let her play in the front yard by herself much less cross streets and go three blocks away. Obviously it’s just poor parenting, I can’t think of any excuse that would make this seem okay.
Just me, but I’d write an anonymous note and post it to their mailbox, just saying what you think about it.
When I grew up, I used to go to the park by myself at 7 and 8. I walked to school across busy streets at 9. It wasn’t a big deal back then. My parents were not negligent or considered unusual.
I don’t think kids are that different these days. I know that stranger kidnapping rates haven’t skyrocketted, just our awareness of them.
How old were you when you were a latchkey kid?
I used to wear my housekey around my neck when I was 9 years old (under strict threat to NOT LET ANYONE SEE THAT KEY) so that I could let myself into the house after school, and nobody batted an eye. Most of my classmates had been latchkey kids for years.
Of course, today I wouldn’t dream of leaving my 10 year old stepdaughter alone in the house, not even to go down the street and grab a quart of milk, lest I get accused of seven different kinds of abuse.
My house is no more or less safe than the one I grew up in. My stepdaughter is not more or less worldly than I was. The only thing that has changed is public opinion.
Of course, that being said, my husband still talks about his unattended child park experience: A little girl (somewhere between five and seven) started playing with his daughter and wanted to be picked up, played with, even taken to the bathroom by…my husband. Total stranger.
My husband and his daugher were at the park for hours, and her parents were nowhere to be seen. That’s kind of fucking scary, given that this child clearly demonstrates inappropriate behavior towards strangers.
I’ve lived in two other countries where it was *just barely* socially acceptable to let a 4-year-old out of the house alone (out on a cul-de-sac or to a park across the street), and it is always the lone 4-year-old who is getting into trouble, ringing people’s doorbells, etc… and who seems to have parents who are not very involved (all the other parents were outside with their kids up to age 5 or so). In my opinion a 4-year-old should never be let out of the house without a parent, even in a very safe or localized area.
My kids were both the type (at age 4) who would have just left the neighborhood with no plans of returning, so I didn’t let them out, even just across the street, until about age 7.
I used to allow my 7-year old son to take his 5-year old sister to the park (several blocks away) in Tokyo, which involved crossing two streets.
I would say it depends on the kids — but from what you describe in this post, it doesn`t sound like an ideal situation. Plus, there`s a big difference between 5 and “barely 4.”
Still, I am amazed that so many people are saying, “call the police.” I really don`t see a big problem with it.
Absolutely not! I have been in a similar situation and I phoned the police–it was in a mall. For me, I would rather be on the safe side and then something happen to them and then have to live with “only if”. It won’t be the last time their parents have bad judgement and you may not be around the next time. Sad.
No way in hell. I wouldn’t even let my almost 11 year old walk to the park by herself, and she doesn’t even have to cross any streets to get there, AND the park shares a parking lot with the local police station! We live in a very low crime small town but it only takes one nutcase….
very very scary. anything could happen.
What bothers me about the picture is the 7 year old escorting the 4 year old. 7 isn’t old enough to take care of 4 outside of adult supervision. Backyard, yes, park no.
But if the 7 year old were to go to the park in a suburban neighborhood a couple of blocks away with another 7 year old, that should be different. As a latchkey kid myself, I’m with Akeeyu–perception has definitely changed, at least in the US. And I think that is a terribly sad thing.
A couple of years back, we were visiting our eldest in Sweden for her graduation. Our son –then about 5-6–ran off with a bunch of other kids same general age to the park without any adults. It was considered perfectly fine and normal. Our son had a wonderful time and great adventures. Growing up in the USA, from the age of 6 or so, I went to the little grocery store across the parking lot from our apartment building. My mother would send me to buy milk. She could watch me cross the parking lot from 5 stories up [and if I didn't look, she knew and I got heck]. It was a good experience for me.
I am sad that I wouldn’t feel comfortable doing the same sort of thing with my 9 year old, that we had to go to Paris with him to be able to send him to the store to buy some bread. He was so PROUD when he came back with his change and his bagette. Such experiences are really good for kids.
Someone mentioned magical thinking of small children and that made me wonder:
When we adults insist on totally monitoring everything our kids do and everywhere they go in such a fashion, are we not engaged in a bit of magical thinking ourselves, to wit, that if we are always there, if we always know exactly what is going on, if we go on every field trip, monitor every playdate, then nothing bad will ever happen to our children.
IMHO, we fool ourselves. Bad things can happen, even if we are always there. Still we can’t wrap our kids in bubble wrap. We do a disservice to our kids who need to know how to make decisions and good choices and can’t do it unless they get practice and even make bad choices on occassion.
I’m sorry – I know I’ll be in the minority. But I don’t think this is a problem if it is a) a safe neighborhood and b) an adult has accompanied the two of them a few times before and c) the kids have not grown up in an environment that prohibited development of some common sense (and yes, I think most parents in the US actively try to prevent that).
I walked home alone from daycare as a five year old. A little more than half a mile. Good friends of mine had their 7 year old walk home alone from a street fair in their small town – turns out the son comes home to a fire that had been started by a malfunctioning appliance in the garage. He went to the neighbors and called the equivalent of 911 and thereby prevented the fire from spreading to their main house.
Yes, 7 year olds are plenty capable of making sound decisions. They need to be brought up in an environment that encourages that. Being under 24×7 full time supervision and not ever allowed to make any independent decision – not likely to create that.
Please don’t start on “those were different times” – the example of the 7 year old was less than two years ago. Statistics actually show that crime against minors has gone down; only the media attention is WAY up.
Don’t prevent your children from growing up. Please.
For what it’s worth, while I agree that attitudes have changed, I think it’s because a lot of kids who are parents now remember the ways in which being unsupervised was negative. The overprotection is a reaction to something, IMHO. In my case, I walked half a mile to the school bus and back every day from age 5 on, and I was terrified. There were dogs, there were mean kids, I was afraid of Ted Bundy (who had not been caught yet, and I do live in Seattle). I don’t want my child to feel terrified and like she can’t talk about with me. I want her to build her confidence in situations that she can succeed in. She’s doing a great job in this.
All my friends have some memories like this, and I imagine it’s pretty common. I know it’s impossible to protect a child completely, but more protection than a couple of generations ago is not a bad thing.
In this case, it was the traffic aspect that scares me most. Then creepy people secondarily.
While I can understand and applaud some of the comments here encouraging parents to foster their children’s ability to make decisions and do for themselves, I really feel the need to point out that it is entirely possible (and very advisable) to do all these things while still making sure they are as safe as possible. There’s a huge difference between me letting my 6 year old go to the bathroom in a restaurant by herself or walk by herself down the street to a friend’s house while I watch from our yard or something like that and the kind of thing AmFam is describing here. Maybe one of these parents feel comfortable with their 7 year old doing things I am not comfortable with; maybe we should stop and realize that age isn’t necessarily a good ruler for what a kid can and cannot safely do, too. But personally? I’d rather err on the side of caution every single time because I am talking about my kids, and I find the suggestion that doing so (in this case, supervising my young children at a public park!) is somehow preventing the proper “growing up” and rites of responsibility for my children absolutely idiotic. There are planty of ways to foster all these things with your children, all while keeping them as safe as you’re able.
And for what it’s worth, there are laws worth knowing about. I don’t know what they might be in that area, or if the lack of supervision would translate to something like child endangerment there. I do know that on a military base, it’s against the law to leave any child under 10 alone in your home. Do I necessarily think that all these sorts of laws make sense for every family? No. But laws arise from problematic situations, and as a responsible parent I think it’s my responsiblity to think all of them through and I damn sure would rather they be there if it means that as a society we are now more attuned to protecting our children.
I don’t think it’s even close to OK! It’s so scary the situations I see small children in sometimes. I am always looking out for other people’s kids. I’m glad you took the time to do the same even though chances are that wasn’t the first or last time those kids will be out on their own.
I have an 8 year old and a 5 year old and neither of them play outside of the house without me – not even in the yard – and we live in a very quiet, “safe” neighborhood.
I had a similar situation one time when I was taking a friends’ and my toddler to the park near her apartment. There was an approx. 6 year old boy and his approx. 2 year old sister running around with bare feet in the park with no one watching them. I eventually figured out that their mom was asleep (or passed out?) in the grass. She later woke up and asked me if I had a smoke. There was heavy construction going on right across the street, a super busy street on the other side, and there were tons of sexual preditors in the neighborhood (known via Megan’s Law). If I had had my phone, I would have called someone, but I didn’t. I still don’t know if I should have done something else. When I left the mom was up and watching them, but it was a long time that the kids were running around without any supervision at all.
Anyone who thinks people are being overprotective should check out a typical map on the Megan’s Law site. There are WAY more sexual preditors out there than I thought – and those are just the ones that are convicted already.
Plus, I don’t think cars are expecting to have to look out for little children running around unsupervised. Maybe drivers were more aware when we were little. And they also weren’t talking on their cell phones while driving.
There is no way I would let a 4 year old out of the house without an adult. No Way. And a 7 year old? The kid probably still believes in the tooth fairy!
I have to agree with Akeeyu. I grew up in a neighborhood where we were allowed to play outside with little adult supervision starting at 5 years of age. By seven, we were riding our bicycles all over the place on our own. Part of that is growing up in a smaller town, but part of it is also that parenting has changed. I’m not sure what I will allow my 8mo daughter to do yet. But I do know that my and my friends’ parents were not irresponsible parents. We had a wonderful time and learned a lot about independence and adventure.
I have read AMFAM’s post and the comments here. Most were thoughtful and reflected different world views as well as parenting styles and comfort levels. One thing I believe that has not been mentioned is “privacy”. When I was growing up I was reminded often to ‘mind my own business’. It was believed then that diversity was good, that there was more than one way to do things, that parents had the right to raise their children the way they wanted. Our neighbors might never eat pork while we didn’t eat meat on Fridays and the people across the street didn’t seem to have any dietary laws to follow. And no one tried to make everyone eat the same way. Why do we all need to make everyone parent the same? Don’t the parents of the two children that AMFAM saw have the right to make their own decisions about what their children should or shouldn’t do? Did they get to and from the park safely? Maybe their parents did know what they were doing. And in any case, is it our business? Do you want casual observers to decide whether you are parenting appropriately and call the police on you if they don’t agree with your choices? Why do we feel that our choices are ‘the right ones’ that everyone else must follow? Have you ever thought you were right about something and later found out you weren’t? If you have concerns, why wouldn’t you just go up to the house of the children involved and talk to the parents? Why do so many of you want to call the police? Why is there so little respect for differing opinions, parenting styles? I wonder why you are willing to report them to the police but not willing to talk to them yourselves? It smacks of tattling and no one likes a tattle tale. It feels more like backstabbing sneaks rather than concerned neighbors. I read many parenting blogs and I read some where I have serious concerns about the decisions parents are making. However, I post a comment or email the blogger explaining my concern, knowing that the parent is the only one with the rght to make the final decision. Yes, I do have some concerns about the health and safety of some of the children I read about and yet I still have to respect their parents right to decide. Only in the case of explicit physical abuse would I call the authorities. Now I may discuss it with close friends and marvel about how different other people view the same situation but I would not put a permanent blemish on these people’s reputations just because I wouldn’t do what they do. Have the courage of your convictions and talk to the parents or mind your own business. It is time for all of us to stay out of other people’s personal lives and respect privacy.
Personally, I think that family lost their right to privacy when their unsupervised four year old trailed me and my kids around the park for 45 minutes. Privacy to leave your kids unsupervised in their own yard, hey, have at it. But out in the rest of the world, where your kid is inappropriately approaching strange adults, welcome to the land where it takes a village to raise a child.
There are a lot of things parents did regularly 30 or 50 years ago that are no longer socially acceptable because we know more about child development than they did back then. I used to spend my days as a 4 year old jumping over a big hole in a second story hayloft. Would I allow my own daughter to do that? Hell no. A kid that age can not adequately judge what is safe or not.
A 7 year old is not old enough to watch a 4 year old, if CPS found that situation (even in a private home) I am pretty sure the parents would get in trouble and it would probably make the news.
How do I know that the child’s parents even know where she is? My daughter has slipped outside more often than I care to admit. If someone else saw her wandering around, I certainly hope they would either drag her butt home or call the cops. All for her own safety.
I think as a culture, we spend way too much time looking the other direction.
There are a lot of kids in our neighborhood who are always on their own. I don’t have any kids, not even looking to have any anytime soon, so I hate to be all judge-y with other parents, but when we’re walking our dog at 11 at night and see a 4 or 5 year old outside by herself, it makes me wonder where the hell her parents are. I know kids can get out of the house by themselves, but holy crap. We live on a street that leads to an industrial park and there can be trucks going up and down at all hours of the day. There are also groups of kids who enjoy riding their bikes at oncoming traffic. Where the hell are their parents? My mom and dad would have killed me!
We were just debating this at the beach this week. There were some little girls playing in the ocean and they had swum very far out. On this particular day the rip tides were strong (there were warning ont he radio, etc) and Tony and I were getting knocked down and pulled around so we came in. We both were concerned with how far out the girls were knowing that we had to struggle so much ourselves. And yet their parents were just sitting there not paying much attention and talking amongst themselves. Ultimately I ended up saying something to them…only to let them know that as adults we found it to be difficult in the water and in case they had not been in (which they hadn’t) I thought they might like to know that the tides were in fact very rough. They said thanks and I left. I wasn’t sure if they thought I was being nosey or not, but I felt good about it. It’s a weird dilemma. Yes, they are your kids but if I think they might be in danger and you are clearly not doing anything about it/don’t seem to be aware of it then what is my responsibility as a member of society/the community/etc. I’m not sure.
[...] the fact that some people will probably have problems with my choice (ala this post about my meddling), but whatever, it was the most interesting part of my [...]
[...] but too much responsibility too soon worries me. You may recall how freaked out I was by this incident at the park. One of my biggest concerns was something happening to the younger kid and the older kid getting [...]
What irresponsible parents! when I was child-less I had a neighbor who would let her 2 year old little boy go outside- all day ( sidewalk in front of house)by himself and she would never even keep an eye on the little boy! Later, she started to let her 1 year old out all day and had her little boy (then 3) take care of her! when I could I would try to keep and eye on them myself. One day they crossed the street by themselves which was when I decided to confront her about it! She was very annoyed and asked how it was any of my bussiness then she had the nerve to yell at the 3 year old for letting the 1 year old cross the street! When she took no action I finally decided to call child protective services.