Comment from Stacey
Time: July 24, 2007, 3:30 am

What a great drawing. Must save to show future boyfriends!

Comment from lisa
Time: July 24, 2007, 3:32 am

Too cute-and good that she is trying to process what she hears. J and I had a discussion about sex ed for kids (while backpacking He was shocked that my mother read a very anatomically correct book on reproduction to me when I was 7 (and included my 5yo sister). I think she was disappointed by our lack of response and would love M’s drawing. J’s parents told him nothing-zip. He doesn’t quite recall how he “figured it out” (or at least he’s not telling) but he does remember a teacher in college putting in a film on how to use a condom and then leaving the room-this was at Texas A&M before co-ed. He was also impressed that my mother always used accurate vocabulary with us and no euphemisms, and I am glad that we are in agreement on this approach. ~lmc

Comment from joybucket
Time: July 24, 2007, 3:37 am

My favorite part is “…so they are swimming somewhere else.”

Comment from amy
Time: July 24, 2007, 3:40 am

Definitely going to have to save that!

Comment from Lilian
Time: July 24, 2007, 3:43 am

A-W-E-S-O-M-E drawing.

And thanks for the posts below and the great discussions they generated. You deserve 100 “Thinking Blogger Awards” for those — as does Jody, of course

Comment from shannon
Time: July 24, 2007, 4:10 am

What’s that? Gay sperm at the bottom there? Even better than a traditional approach. I love that the alpha male gets the egg–ie: the one with hair!

: )

Comment from kjames
Time: July 24, 2007, 12:42 pm

the sperm with hair wins!!!

Comment from mortimersmom
Time: July 24, 2007, 1:46 pm

oh, M’s teacher is just going to LOVE you when she starts drawing this in school!

Comment from Julia
Time: July 24, 2007, 4:29 pm

I’m amazed no one else things there is a problem when a very young child is drawing pictures of sperm. I’m all about being honest with kids, but this is most certainly not age appropriate. If my daughter were in school with a child who started talking about sperm swimming up stream, I’d… well honestly, I don’t know what I’d do, but I sure wouldn’t think it was clever and cute.

Maybe we should all think that Lindsey Lohan is just adorable when she’s on her 2nd (or is it her 3rd) DUI a week after she gets out of rehab. Maybe her mom starting out her drinking career when Lindsey was just a teenager was not the most age appropriate thing either.

Comment from Melinda Capers
Time: July 24, 2007, 5:10 pm

From Mother to Daughter, there is wisdom shared…here’s to the hope that M has knowledge in the waiting to impart on her little sister L

Comment from Jody
Time: July 24, 2007, 6:20 pm

Yes, Julia, teaching your child about the facts of life is the sex-ed equivalent of bar-hopping with your teenager.

[Oh. My. GAWD.]

Comment from Julia
Time: July 24, 2007, 6:31 pm

Jody, if that’s what you thought I was comparing, you’re missing the point entirely, but me thinks you want to miss it just so you can say “oh my gawd” and draw a crowd.

Comment from AmericanFamily
Time: July 24, 2007, 6:34 pm

Ok, Julia, I will bite. Why don’t you explain the Lindsey Lohan part of your comment?

Because to me it seems as though you are implying that my teaching M the facts about sperm and egg will lead her to have sex as a teenager.

Comment from Melinda
Time: July 24, 2007, 7:11 pm

Ok, I didn’t see this comment from Julia until after mine had been posted. I have read it and re-read it, and I will only ad that I admire AmFarm for being open, honest, and willing to take on a subject a lot of parents have issues with in the first place. Outside of the human reproduction process (aka sex ed) that M is learning about, she’s also having other things imparted on her that will carry over into many other areas of life. I know because I have a Mom who has always been upfront and honest with me in a variety of ways. Even at turning age 34 last Thursday, to this very day, even though my mom and I don’t see eye to eye on everything, I know that in my parents I have two people on this earth (other than my husband) that I can count on no matter what, no matter where I am, no matter what it is, they will be there for me, no questions asked. Although our relationship hasn’t always been easy, I know a lot of people who don’t have a relationship with their parents at all, and I feel blessed that I am fortunate enough to have this in two people that I care for so dearly. To most, on the outside and otherwise, this photo may look like a sperm and egg picture drawing by a young child, but to M, I’m hoping she’ll remember this and know that she doesn’t have to be afraid to go to her mom with anything. That is something that you can’t put a pricetag on. As a teenager, an adult and forever, here’s to hoping that M knows what a thing her Mom has done in sharing that part of herself with her daughter. I am not the parent of any two-legged children (as of yet) myself, but I can only hope that if I ever should be, that I could impart the same on them as AmFam has done with M. As for my four-legged children, that’s easy, they’re all spayed/neutered so the subject need not come up (except for the turtles that is). Taking a step back for all the flame-throwers who will undoubtedly be staring at this screen right now and begin chastising the words I speak as a non-two-legged kid parent. I just had to share my thoughts.

Comment from Barbara
Time: July 24, 2007, 7:32 pm

My daughter is 3 and very aware of boys having penises and girls having vaginas. She recently told me she knows babies come out of vaginas and asked how they get there. I’ve always gone the open and honest route with her and told her the basic truth. Don’t worry about other people’s comments. When you have a precocious child, it’s good not to hide reality. They’ll find out about it eventually.

Comment from Sarah
Time: July 24, 2007, 8:11 pm

AmFam, don’t always agree with you 100%, but I respect your views and it’s nice to hear a fresh voice here in adoption land. I’m totally with you on this one though. I don’t get the comparison to LL at all.

I’m all for answering questions about sex openly and honestly, especially as my kids are Chinese and I’m not. That just brings on extra questions from my elder daughter, including ones on families, why I don’t look like my children, the details of the birth process. Oh yeah, it’s a frequent topic and usually brought up somewhere fun, like in the grocery store.

Comment from Julia
Time: July 24, 2007, 9:14 pm

Amfam writes: Ok, Julia, I will bite. Why don’t you explain the Lindsey Lohan part of your comment?

Yes, I know LL is an extremism, but I did not intend anyone to believe I meant M would become a budding alcoholic. Only that LL’s parents have been (again extreme here) given her freedoms at an incredibly young age, that no parent should.

In comparison, I believe that talking to a 4 year old about sperm is also too young. In contrast to it answering a question, I believe it only festers more (which is not a bad thing at an appropriate age and maturity level). Yes, questions are GOOD, I just don’t think that’s a good age to talk to my children about it. Here’s a case in point about what kids do with just a “little” information (and really, I’m sorry to go on so long here - really I don’t know why since so many people are having fun with the roast and all)

But anyway - I was planning my kids b’day party. It was a water party complete with water slide and dunk tank and mini-kid pool. I think I was even more excited then the kids, till my lawyer-neighbor pointed out to her 6 year old that I was breaking the law and was going to be arrested if I did so. (turns out we have a level 3 water restriction now, which means watering is forbidden if it’s not between 10pm and 6am). Since I was out of town yesterday, I didn’t realize the water restriction was now in place. Anywho… her 6 year old tells my 6 year old that I’m in big trouble and am going to be and thrown in jail. So my 6 year old comes home hysterical that mommy’s going in the clink.

So, if a 6 year old does something as simple as misunderstand a water restriction, what in the world can she do with sperm and egg. And by the way, my youngest would not keep that little jewel to herself. Have you ever played the “telephone game” the truth would be so distorted and I’d have a crowd of angry parents at my door by the time I came home from work. So the whole b’day party episode is what prompted my note this morning. I was still not over the “thrown in jail” comment, and now I’m hearing that folks are thinking that telling a 4 year old about sperm is a good thing. Well, it’s obviously good for some, and I applaud you for knowing what’s right with my family.

I do apologize for stating my views so boldly, but there you have it - they’re still my views and what I believe. For now I guess I should go grab a glass of wine and enjoy the rest of the roast. I’m finished now, and will move on.

Comment from chicagomama
Time: July 24, 2007, 11:27 pm

Ok, Julia

I will bite back. Your analogy still makes no sense. Giving children factual information about reproduction in an age appropriate manner does not (in any way, shape or form) equal giving children inappropriate freedom. Nor can I see the ‘bad’ culminating effect of such information. As much as I do believe that accurate information does = intellectual freedom, I don’t see where it leads to the path of underage illegal experimentation, rehab and a stunted life once full of potential.

Your analogy was extreme, and it was logically flawed. The only thing that might happen is that M. shares her (pretty darned accurate) understanding that sperm fertilizes eggs, and that is where babies come from with some of her friends, or you know, just with her mother - who she originally had the conversation.

And, if you have a problem with the idea that your children may well hear the true facts of life from one of their school friends, or heck - hear a totally false version - well, in my view, you have two options.

1. homeschool your children and limit any and all contact they have with other children in general. Because, you know, these kids could bring up sperm and egg anywhere - the playground, school, church, at some other person’s home…its too scary to even think about!
or
2. educate your children about sex ed in an age appropriate manner that follow when many other parents do so as well. While you might believe your children are too young - I think if you did a more formal poll of child development experts and others truly knowledgable about child development and the effectiveness of early sexual education - you might find that your beliefs about when certain ideas are age appropriate might be a bit off. And you might also be surprised at how young many children start discussing issues and ideas relating to sexuality. If your children are at school - I can almost guarantee they have heard more there than you seem to have ever shared at home.

And, just because a child doesn’t bring up a topic with you doesn’t mean they aren’t thinking about it and coming to faulty conclusions on their own. Children constantly are trying to figure out the way the world around them works, and the why as well.

To give another example - it is the reason why many adopted children thought their first parents must be dead - because their adoptive parents never spoke of the first parents. If a child isn’t given information (accurate, complete *and* age appropriate) they often employ what is known as “magical thinking” to come up with the ‘answer’ to whatever question they may have. Adoptive children thinking their first parents must have died didn’t ask their adoptive parent this (nor did their adoptive parents tell them that)…they picked up on their AP’s lack of desire to talk about the child’s biological parents, the lack of contact with biological parents, and based upon those two ‘facts’ - determine in their own mind that their biological parents must be dead.

Would that be the determination of most adults? No. But children don’t think like adults, and make those kinds of ‘magical’ leaps.

Now, I appreciate the fact you are willing to admit that your discomfort regarding this topic was in large part in reaction to something completely unrelated: the way your neighbor acted regarding your pool party, and your 6 year old’s reaction that another 6 year old’s statements that you were going to jail. However, factual information that a sperm and an egg mix together to create a baby *isn’t* (I hope) as inflammatory to your child or any other child, as to produce hysterics. Nor would that information cause anyone to think someone had to go to jail (no laws are being broken by egg and spern meeting).
So, again - it really isn’t the same thing. At all.

And last, and this is because I am truly curious (and do think I could learn something new if you answer this question) -

How in the world do you explain where babies come from if you don’t use the stork answer, don’t say love makes babies, and do not use the actual truth of sperm and egg meeting? Could you please share with all of us the story that you *do* use that accurately and age appropriately (in your view) explains how and where babies comes from? Because, quite frankly, I am coming up blank as I try to envision another story.

Comment from lisa
Time: July 25, 2007, 12:23 am

Ok, so I mentioned early on that my mother read us a book (lavender colored, about 8×10 , published in the early 70s-anyone know the book?) which illustrated the penis in the vagina and the sperm swimming up to the egg. This was in 1973 when my sister was 5. My sister is now a responsible mother, having retired from a jetsetting corporate job after 15 years to be a SAHM/entrepreneur. I’m guessing the knowledge at an early age didn’t damage her-not sure she even shared it with her friends. The thing is, my mother took the mystery out of it and left little to share. (Those who know me recognize that my sister is a better example than I am, but I am positive my mispent youth had more to do with my general nature as an empirical learner than with early sex ed But, I will say, my mother left the door open for frank conversations about sex throughout my life, and that has been really helpful in sorting things out at times. Oh, my mom got married (to her long time boyfriend, nothing too scandalous) because she was pregnant-that may have influenced her thinking with raising her daughters. ~lmc

Comment from shelly
Time: July 25, 2007, 2:21 am

I feel sorry for the egg. Why don’t the other sperm like her? I think she’s perfectly lovely.

Comment from Laura
Time: July 25, 2007, 4:12 pm

Lisa, I think this book was called, “How babies are made” and it featured paper cut outs of flowers, Chickens, Puppies and people all making babies?? I had that book! I was born in 1970 and I was so young when my mommy started reading it to me that I don’t remember ever not knowing about the facts of life. It was a sweet and gentle way to tell us about reproduction. My mother is a pediatrician and thinks that children should have true, factual information from the time they are very little. If you start talking eggs and sperm when the child is very small, there will always be an open door of communication and there will not be a low comfort level talking about body things.
If my daughter draws pictures of eggs and sperms I will smile so big and tape it to the fridge and make a copy for Grandma!!
~~ Rock on Amfam Mama!!

Comment from Jody
Time: July 25, 2007, 5:03 pm

Julia’s been banned, but I’ll just point out that I drew my conclusion from HER assertion that teaching your children about sex at a young age was the equivalent to introducing your child to the bar scene at a young age. She wrote, “Maybe her mom starting out her drinking career when Lindsey was just a teenager was not the most age appropriate thing either.”

I’m pretty astute about language, and I don’t think I’m wrong to infer that Julia implied that AmFam’s decision to teach her child about eggs and sperm was a step in “starting out her [sex] career.”

I disagree with Julia’s analogy. I believe that introducing your child to the facts of life at a young age is the equivalent of introducing your child to information about alcohol at a young age — that it physically affects the brain; that young brains are still developing so the effects can be quite profound and dangerous; that for some or many people, it is addictive; that if you choose to drink alcohol when you are legally allowed, you should never ever drive, and you should drink in moderation.

Because I drink wine occasionally and my husband drinks beer, I have already had to use age-appropriate language to explain to my children why no, this is an adult beverage. I could have just said, “because you cannot, and I said so,” but I believe this would not be as effective a teaching strategy as answering the questions more fully, albeit using ideas and concepts that my six-year olds can understand. I could also never drink alcohol in front of my children, and engage in some magical thinking of my own about where and when they might encounter alcohol “out there in the world,” but I’m a cynic — plus, I read the statistics about when children are first encouraged by friends or dealers to try drugs and alcohol.

It’s true that my “oh my GAWD” statement was mildly inflammatory. Frankly, I’m always surprised when the reader of an intelligent blog such as AmFam’s shows such a startling lack of familiarity with the current best standards of parenting, as supported by pediatricians and sex educators. Perhaps I should simply have said that, instead.

But I don’t think I’m the one who wanted to see a trainwreck in progress.

Pingback from Questions asked | this woman’s work
Time: September 5, 2007, 3:31 pm

[…] What the expert-types told us was that birth dad would likely come up as she learned the birds and the bees and realized that it’s not pregnancy that makes a baby, it’s conception with egg AND sperm. Right now she’s all about pregnancy, which seems developmentally appropriate. Still I know that Noah was around four when he was able to grasp that Brett had something to do with his arrival so I know that her wanting to know about him is likely just around the corner. I want to get this book as recommended by Am-Fam soon to ready ourselves for it. […]