School Dilemma
In the past two weeks, a conversation with someone has me really on the fence about whether we should send our kids to our local, pretty good public school or to the very very impressive all-girls school.
I am going to try to squeeze out the time to write down my pros and cons of both, but it looks like it is going to be impossible before the girls are in bed tonight. Until I get a chance, I am wondering if those of you with experience would care to share your thoughts?
1.) Did you go to an all-girls school? Did you think the benefits were worth the investment?
2.) Did you send your kids to private school even though your public school is pretty good (and you pay a chunk of change in taxes to support it)?
3.)Are you a progressive/liberal democrat who has a strong belief in good, well-funded public schools….and you still sent your kid to private school anyway? Have you previously ranted about the importance of upper-middle class families not abandoning the public school system…and still sent your kid to private school? (Oh the shame!)
Yeah, I think you can see a bit of my conflictedness in those questions.
Keep it civil, folks.
I don’t really have the kind of experience you’re looking for, having attended public schools all of my life. But, I just read this article a few days ago that addressed the question (from someone who was leaning towards private school for his kids and then changed his mind).
As a former teacher of middle school and high school students, I can say, without hesitation, that I would most definately consider an all-girls school for my two daughters. But, we don’t have the financial resources or such a school in our area. Anyway, Google this if you have the time: “Ann Richards School for Young Women Leaders” and read about that particular school in Austin, TX and the other schools throughout the country that came before it. You might also want to check out this site: http://www.austinisd.org/schools/annrichards/research.phtml
I went to a private school from Mommy and Me through senior year of secondary school and here’s what I found. Private school was great for me because I was an early reader and there were other children at my same skill level. My elementary school was incredibly ‘hippy-dippy’ , if you will, and my father chose it because on a final tour he saw a sixth grader sitting in a tree reading a book.
The school wasn’t structured enough for me and I applied to a private secular all-girls school of my own volition. I had to bargain with my father to let me attend the school for one year before we re-evaluated whether single sex or coed was a better environment for me. The all-girls environment brought me out of my shell with my peers and I never felt that being skilled in math or sciences was somehow unladylike and boys wouldn’t like me because of it. There are studies that show that young women benefit from an all-girls environment, and I would definitely suggest that if you don’t want to send your girls to an all-girls school for elementary school that you consider it for secondary school. It will be a boon to them.
As a coda, I went to that private elementary school with the daughter of the president of the city’s public school board. I think the only problem is that private schools are now so expensive that some of the diversity in the student body is gone, thanks to tuitions that went from $8000 my senior year to well over $30,000 for a 7th grader now. I would say trust your gut on a school, if it says to you this is the right place for your child, it will be.
Well, you probably know where I stand on this issue, but I will say it anyway. We are going to send our daughter to a public school, preferably one in our own neighborhood. But if the neighborhood school were terrible, we would apply for another public school in our city. (We have school choice here. Sort of.)
I remember a while back reading about Spike Lee’s decision on where to send his kids to school. As I recall his wife finally announced it would be a *good* school – for them that meant private.
i went to ok public schools for elementary and secondary. i was not a good student, but i don’t think private school would have helped. although it was a large school i really got the most from it that my nonacademic self could have. i went to a private womens college (2 year) and i loved it. i think having the all-girl thing later really helped me and i encourage it. i’m not sure it matters so much for elementary. as long as you are your child’s advocate (and i’m sure you are) public school should not be a problem. good luck with the choice! (and remember you can always change your mind)
I live in a much smaller town than you do and I have sent my boys to public schools. We always said we’d try public schools and take them out if there was a problem. Now my oldest is entering his senior year, so far so good. He has good grades and test scores and will easily be admitted to his first choice college (his first choice school is not that hard to get into, large state university in neighboring state, we’re not looking at Harvard).
Their high school is pretty diverse, both racially and socioeconomically. Last year was the first year that the high school had more minority students than non-minority (which to me makes the minority the majority but I guess they aren’t all the same minority so they’re still minority, if that makes sense). Anyway, I am glad my kids have had the opportunity to attend school with such a diverse group of students although they are in all accelerated and AP classes so they’re not actually in class with a very diverse group.
You need to find out from the private school what kind of services are available in case one of your children has a learning disability, ADHD, or any sort of special need. I know numerous people that have pulled their kids from private school and enrolled them in public because the private schools weren’t really interested in working with them. They only wanted well-behaved students who could sit in their chairs all day who didn’t need extra help with their work. This is obviously just my experience but something you should be aware of before you enroll your kids.
One of the biggest parenting mistakes I ever made was to send my kids to private school instead of our very good public school. I did so for a variety of reasons, but mostly because my children would have been the only Jewish kids in their classroom, and perhaps even in the school. So I sent them for 4 years to very expensive private schools. It was an unmitigated disaster, and half way through the 3rd grade I pulled them both out, homeschooled them for the rest of the school year and then put them in the public school the following year.
The public school was MUCH more attentive to my kids individual learning needs. The curriculum was much further along than in private schools. They had a better social situation than in private school.
My kids have continued in public school throughout their schooling and now are both in high school. I’m very happy with the schools, although middle school TOTALLY sucked. But it would have in private school, too.
I’m a liberal, I believe in public education, I support my public schools. If there had been an all-girls school I would certainly have considered it. As it is, I’m trying to talk my daughter into Wellesley, which would not only be around the corner, provide a great education, but would keep her out of the realm of college boys!
The article Janna cites has a link to an article from the WSJ about families who have relocated to another state to go to the “perfect” private school. Unbefuckinglievable. That story is at http://www.careerjournal.com/myc/workfamily/20070305-hwang.html?cjpos=home_whatsnew_major
Public school has worked well for us because the school fits both of our kids’ needs. One is twice-exceptional (meaning gifted w/ learning disabilities), the other is an overachieving BMOC. I can’t imagine a private school that would work for
both of them, particularly the special ed needs of the youngest.
This is something I go round and round about. I went to public schools because my mother believed strongly in public education-though she also stretched to move to a very wealthy community so that I could attend public schools that were ranked in the top 10 in the state (that isn’t percent)-so she may have been having her cake as they say. Ironically, I think she and I both struggled socially living in such a wealthy community (no, we weren’t poor, but we still had the working class values my parents were raised with-and we didn’t have the money to “summer on the continent” and such the way our neighbors did). So, I am very happy as an adult to live in a very socioeconomically diverse urban neighborhood with friends who have a wide range of life experiences. But, I still know that I benefit all the time from the foundation that my education provided. And I now live in a minimal government state that does not invest in education-though there is a growing activist movement that I am part of-so, am I liberal enough to send my daughter to the neighborhood school? I’m thinking maybe I should move back to the midwest when she is school age, but I have also been looking at a new international charter school (mandarin)that involves a huge commute (of course, I am a bicycle commuter, so everything past downtown is huge-but commuting to school messes with my sustainability principles and my daughter’s social opportunities, sigh)…~lmc
My kids go to a public school, but it’s a school of choice. They attend a very good, progressive, project based charter school. I feel like we are supporting public education and encouraging it to evolve by example. I love our school, no qualms about it and so do our kids.
My only regret that our kids don’t attend our neighborhood school is the friends. My kids know few people in our neighborhood. We constantly drive to play dates all over town. I think kids attending a private school would face the same challenges. And frankly, knowing someone to play kick the can with or ride to the park would be a really nice thing.
Oh yeah, and my kids sometimes hang-out with friends from the local very exclusive private school, those people are out of our league. I really feel like it would set my kids up to become more materialistic and consumer driven. When they were little it was like pulling up in front of the mansion from Gone With The Wind for playdates. Plus there is a lot of keeping up with the Jones that I just don’t see in our crowd.
Flip side- since our school is a school of choice, you have a very controlled environment like you would in a private school. There is little student turn-over. My kids are more sheltered than those out in the traditional public schools. Our teenagers don’t have near the problems with substance and sex that they have in the local junior high. Part of that is because everyone knows everyone at this little school. I know who my kids are hanging out with, what they are doing and know the parents. It’s hard to get one over on us when the parents talk to each other.
That completely changed last year when my daughter went to the traditional junior high. It’s hard to have those kind of relationships in huge public schools.
I don’t have kids so I can’t comment on this issue from the perspective of a parent; however, as an educator I can say that every school is different and there are places where public is better than private. For example within Chicago Public Schools, there is so much diversity between each school that there are some unbelievable top-notch schools that I would kill to have my child go to, but that there are some terrible schools that I really feel for the kids that go there. It’s not really a debate between public v. private but more of debate between Public School A and Private School B.
If you know any teachers in your area, ask them. They will know the real deal. Keep in mind that at least in the state of Illinois, any person can be pulled off the street to teach in a private/parochial school, but that IL teachers have to prove their degrees & experience to the state of Illinois board of ed, as well as pass a series of up to 4 state exams to prove that they are qualified before they can even be interviewed for a position in a public school. One of my friend’s friend’s was hired as a drama teacher in a private Jewish school literally off the street — yes he had an undergrad, but he hadn’t completed any teacher training not to mention the state license. Of course it was just drama not reading or math, but you get my drift.
Visit each school. What is the principal like? Meet the staff. Do you get a good vibe? The thing about an all-girls school is that, well, the world is not all girls. Learning about how little boys operate can be good.
Best of luck!
I went to a private school throughout my entire education and an all-girls school for highschool. I loved my elementary school and HATED my highschool. I will never send my child to a same-sex school. Although my HS had a great english and history program, I was often told not to ask so many questions in science class and the education in that field was very sub-par. It didn’t help that I went there with a scholarship and didn’t fit in on the socio-economic ladder. I would most likely do public, especially if they were decent to good.
Ultimately, however, it is not about public vs. private. It is about what is best for YOUR kid and what are the EXACT choices that you have in front of you. Make sure that you visit the schools and see through the elitest BS that the private places tout, as well as make sure that the public school has support available for your child whether they are not doing well or exceeding classroom level. It makes much more sense to me to have a pro and con list of the two schools, versus the generic public versus private one.
Good luck!
I went to a series of crappy public schools and one private all-girls school when I was 15. I wouldn’t recommend either.
I believe in public schools. However, I wouldn’t feel any qualms at all about enrolling my children in private school if the public school was really bad. Why should children bear the burden of bad political decisions by adults? If you believe in public education there are many ways to support it, like voting and lobbying and supporting higher taxes that go directly to education. I wouldn’t feel any moral need to sacrifice my children to a bad school. That just doesn’t make sense to me. Of course private schools can be bad too.
My mother believed in public education and sent me to public schools, but by junior high the schools were so horrible, socially and academically, she realized it was a terrible environment and I wasn’t learning anything anymore.
I’m mostly against single-sex education. It’s better to work on developing healthy friendship relationships between people of the opposite sex. Maybe single-sex education works for some people, but I personally didn’t like it. I think girls can be very cruel to each other, and separating them from boys can bring out the worst in them. The same is true of all-boys schools.
I think it all depends on the nature of the child and what kind of social and academic environment best suits them.
I do language research on first and second graders. Based on my experiences, I think that at the youngest grades, co-ed vs. single sex doesn’t make much of a difference, since in a lot of co-ed classes the girls and boys are basically operating in different universes. Girls generally don’t start running into math and science issues until later, if at all. I know that when I was a kid I would have been very annoyed if my parents had made me go to an all-girls school. I would have thought they wanted me to become more feminine and that it wasn’t appropriate for me to compete with boys.
Personally I’m planning on sending my kids to public school unless there is a dual-immersion language program available at a nearby private school and no similar public school program.
I grew up in South Africa where many (most) of the formerly-white public schools were single-sex, so I had the great public school and single-sex experience all in one. Single-sex schools are more the norm there, and personally I liked being in an all-girls school for high school where I didn’t have to cope with boys during school time. But then I was always kind of aloof from the girly cliques and cattiness so I can’t comment on that aspect. (Then I went into engineering so having spent ten years of my education surrounded by women, I’ve subsequently spent fifteen years surrounded by men… go figure!) I loved being at a low key government school and not having to deal with the socioeconomically overprivileged on a daily basis. I think that that’s a good education for life.
I think that at least half of the education your children get is at home, and so going to the “right” school is not that critical – especially in the early years. I think caring matters more than “quality”. But I also think that when your kids can communicate that a school feels wrong for them, it’s important to take that seriously.
I agree with Sarah. Like her I, too am a childless educator and have not yet had to make this choice.
Every school culture is different and you have to find the best fit for your family. I would encourage you to scope out the schools you are considering in person. I would be willing to bet that after visiting these schools you will probably get a strong feeling about where you want your girls to be. I would also suggest asking to see samples of student work so that you can get an idea of what the curriculum looks like in practice rather that just hearing some administrator wax poetic about why his/her school’s approach is best.
Best of luck to you and the girls!
I went to private. Grew up in a rich town with great public schools. My parents weren’t rich and they knew I would be better in a private environment. I loved it, though it was co-ed. I am planning on sending my girls to private. No doubt. I do feel public, especially Charter and Magnet have some great programs and we have decent schools here but my experience is that private was better for me. My husband went to both and found it to be a good experience either way.
For me, being a late reader, not having a tremendous amount of self-confidence, private just fit. I was a big fish in a small pond. I didn’t have to fight to participate and gained confidence and it made a world of difference.
Good luck choosing.
In my opinion, which school works best for your child depends entirely on your child. What works for one child often won’t for another. Our oldest child began school at our local public school in what I’d describe as an upper middle class/upper class neighbourhood. As much as we wanted him to attend our local public school, we realized pretty quickly that it just wasn’t for him. This particular school, supposedly one of the best in the city, was no longer very good. In recent years, all T.A.s had been dropped, class sizes had grown larger (over 30), sports, arts and music programs had been dropped, even the library was no longer open on a full time basis!! After Grade 1, we decided this school couldn’t provide the quality of education we’d hoped to get.
We then researched private schools. We found one that was nurturing, diverse, a school that taught a child how (s)he best learned. Having been in the private school system for a few years now, I can definitely say that this school is in the minority. Most private schools in our area have very narrow views on education and their style is pretty much “one size fits all” and if your child’s needs in any way deviate from this, they’re in trouble!
It’s now been 3-4 years since we pulled our oldest from public school and our youngest starts school next year. Odds are we will again try the local public school which apparently is very much on the upswing again, having gotten much more funding in recent years. We’re keeping an open mind.
Overall, I’d say the one drawback about private school, which another poster mentioned, is that the students tend to be much more spread out and playdates usually involve driving rather than just running up the street. Some private schools also do have a snob factor, but honestly, we picked what might be considered to be somewhat of a “granola” private school and I’d say I find the “keeping up with the Joneses” to be much less present there than at the local public school. I think each school is different, it’s always a question of which school best fits your child and your family….and if you can find the ideal school within walking distance, you’ve won the jackpot!!lol
I love this discussion, I am interracially adopted and now raising 4 children, two boys and two girls. Ages 13-11-8-6 and all have a 1/2 or 3/4 after their age but for the sake of my own sanity….
I went to public school my entire life and then my parents decided that I should go to private high-school and so off I went to the high school that my dad had attended many years previous. Imagine their surprise when it was a struggle for a 1/2 Mexican 1/2 African American girl to fit in. I was one of three people of color and all of us were adopted interracially, it was creepy. It felt like we had a special pass to be there. I cried until Christmas break. The I made some girlfriends and had a couple of choir concerts and started hanging out with the boys basketball team and really began to find a group to click with.
Be realistic, you might think that you have a lot now, and that you are financially well established and then you go the first sleep-over….it was a shock to my parents, my friends were filthy rich and I tried hard not to make my parents feel bad but it was hard not be jealous and say things to my artist stay at home Mom. I have since apologized.
I also felt like I was representing “all people of color”, it was up to me to be the voice and one counselor pulled me into his office and asked “Where can we recruit more students such as yourselves?” One phone call from my parents and those meetings stopped.
It was so hard to be the only, I longed for my Sherrita and Davenna and Jackie and Mi Jin girlfriends, and tried to start loving, Kelly, Linda and Stephanie….
I look at it this way, if it’s all you will ever know, you will find a way to survive, we all do, but to suddenly have it sprung on you was way too hard, I really was angry. 7 years after graduating I was talking with my mom and she told me “Had you not stopped crying during Christmas break we were going to pull you out, and send you back to the public school.”
I was stunned. I had some wonderful experiences but it changed the way I look at school permanently.
We have chosen to do public and to be involved parents and that we won’t look at private unless something tells us it may have to be a choice for our family. I had a friend say, “If all the like-minded people are in one place, how are we learning ANYTHING new?” Food for thought.
I’m from the decently sized midwestern town that you’re in, and so I have a pretty good idea which very, very good girls school you’re talking about. I think it has a reputation for being kind of snotty, but I never got that vibe from anyone who went there. And the academics are really top-notch there. The only real drawback that I can see as an outsider, is that it’s a mighty long commute. Also, I don’t know so much about the racial/ethnic diversity (I think there was not so much when I was younger, but this may have changed in the 15 years or so since I started high school), but I would imagine that Asians are reasonably well represented.
I don’t have kids yet, but I come from a pretty liberal family who believed education was important, etc, etc, but sent their kids to parochial school. In my family’s case, it had a lot to do with a long standing family tradition of Catholic schooling on both sides of my family. It may have also been something of a concession to the grandparents, although I think that was a minor reason. But my parents thought Catholic education was important, and so I got one. However, I was getting said Catholic education in one of the definitely less affluent areas of town (Near East Side, if you’re curious), and actually had *more* diversity in my schools than I would have had I gone to public school.
I am still not sure what I’ll do when the time comes. Part of me agrees with my parents about the importance of a Catholic education. But part of me has a liberal freakout when I consider that. It’s a very hard decision, I think.
I think there are two issues: what fits your girls’ needs best, and how you feel about your choices in comparison to the choices of your friends.
ALL of Calder’s colleagues send their kids to one of two very, very fancy-schmancy private schools. Or they homeschool. NONE of them send their kids to public schools. Finally this year there will be two new hires who bought houses in our school district and are using the excellent public schools here.
We have fantastic public schools, but let’s face it, if you’re paying a lot of money for private school, you at least start with a greater feeling of power, control, and being heard than if you go to the public schools. It may be an illusion, but it’s a powerful illusion. Class sizes just are smaller. Parental resources are, overwhelmingly, greater.
So whenever we’re in colleague gatherings, I have a brief round of anxiety: OMG, our kids aren’t getting The Very Best Education That Money Can Buy.
Then I remember that we cannot possibly re-jigger our lives and our choices to afford THREE private school tuitions, nor would I WANT to pay for college three times per child before they even reach college, and our public schools really are great. And more than that, we’re giving our kids a great home life, with lots of interesting experiences (far, far more than I had at a comparable age) — and, just as importantly, they’re loving school.
I also love that, unlike in preschool, their friends all now live within a ten-minute drive of our house.
Of course I angst and angst about our schools. There are MANY issues I could take with them. But I know myself, and I know I wouldn’t deal well with the “keeping up with the Joneses” aspect of the private schools around here, and I know public school is working well for our kids.
That’s the other piece, after all: are the various options the right choices for YOUR kids. I mean, if the all-girls school had a significant population of Chinese-American/Hapa kids, that alone would be a major factor, right? And then there are the educational philosophies.
The fact is, I mostly have an impossible time justifying the expense of private school when we live in such a great public-school district. But when I think about the NCLB-driven testing, and how the private-school kids are exempt, I definitely second-guess myself.
Honestly, I just want to spend the tuition on other things. I’m sort of greedy that way, especially when now that I know (for now) my kids are loving their school.
Sorry for just rambling, but I understand the impulse to second-guess your decision, even when you have great public schools.
As a former public school teacher, I feel totally confident sending my kids to the local public school. Individual schools do vary a lot, as well as teachers within the school (which make a HUGE difference as to the experience a child has at school). School-wide issues I would check out include diversity, discipline/classroom management guidelines, and emphasis on testing. I don’t know how it is in IL, but here in CA there are some public schools that are test-taking crazy now that their funding is attached to their scores.
I also don’t think we would “fit in” with private school families. We aren’t a “see you at the club” or “we just came back from our house in Tahoe” kind of family. Besides that, I don’t think the teachers are any better – usually they are actually paid less in a private school. Any enrichment activities (art, music) they may have we can do outside of school. There is probably an academic advantage to a classroom with no highly disruptive kids (?)
I don’t know if the girl-only environment would make too much of a difference in elementary school. But I have no experience with it. I would consider it for my daughter for middle school, though. We will have to see how things are.
1. No and yes, absolutely, I would love to have that option.
2. Our public school is pretty lousy–but even if it were decent, I am a huge believer in Montessori, and public Montessori schools aren’t that common (here anyway).
3. Yes, yes, yes.
I went to private schools all the way through (schools in my city suck, and my parents are Republicans, so they never felt conflicted about it). I was in a Montessori schools from 3-9, and then started 5th grade at an all-girls school, which I attended through high school.
I feel very strongly that single-sex education is fantastic for girls, though I’m not sure it’s so good for boys (at least not privileged white boys — it just feeds their sense of entitlement).
I occasionally feel like I missed out on a fundamental American experience by not attending public school, but I have to say the education I received was *phenomenal*. Seriously, I was at a conference one time in another city, and (without mentioning I went to private schools), I told an anecdote about my 7th-grade English teacher, and someone said, “Well, you obviously attended a private school.” Almost every “innovative” teaching practice I read about is something my teachers were doing 20-30 years ago.
My husband’s grandparents were public school teachers, and he has always leaned strongly toward public schools, but after hearing about my experiences (not because I was trying to sell him on private schools, but just the way you share stories about your life with each other), he told me he’s starting to think private schools might be a better option for our kids (of which we have none — we’re waiting on a referral from Taiwan).
Having said all that, I think we’d probably send our kids (if we ever are matched with a child) to public schools: There’s a public Montessori school half a mile from our house, and there’s also a bilingual Mandarin-English program at a school downtown. (And don’t think we don’t know how lucky we are to have those options!)
Full disclosure: I’m a homeschool advocate who is not a Jesus freak and that supports the public schools. I do not mind my tax dollars going towards good public education one bit. That said…
I think the public vs. private issue is not a fair frame for an argument unless you are discussing money (paying for school vs. free) or theory/politics (free public education via taxes vs. private education.) Other than those issues, when making decisions about where to actually send your actual kids, it depends so much on the schools themselves. Not to mention, your children’s needs and preferences.
So, a free spirited learner might have gone to a private military very regimined school and say it sucked. Another who needed a lot of structure may have gone to a very liberal private school and say it sucked. Public schools differ about as much based on everything from what state its in down to who the particular teacher is who will be working with your child.
I would approach it like, I guess, Spike Lee did. Which school is the best for my child? My family? My finances? Leave the political overhead baggage out of it. Sure, you may have opinions on how to support the public schools, but that doesn’t mean that your kid has to be a political poster girl for your point of view. (Vice versa, if you think public schools need radical change, but your kid loves public school and is doing great there, you don’t need to yank them out to prove a point, either.) You can support say, prison reform, for example without being a prisoner. Or gay marraige without being gay. If you do go the private route, I would say as long as you continue to vote for your school’s bond issues and pay your taxes, you have nothing to feel guilty about.
Which is not really what you asked. You asked for experiences. I went to public school and I taught in public school. And although there were pockets of greatness, and many students (my sister included) did great in them, there are also large spans of mediocracy and other pockets of downright abuse. I’m sure the same could be said for private schools. I really think it depends on the individual situation.
As for all girls schools, I will say that every woman I think I’ve ever met who went to an all girls school appreciated the foundation it gave her later in life. I still think girls get the shaft in coed education to a great extent. To find out who you are and what you can do with minimal interference from the patriarchy must truly be a gift, I would think. If the school was right and I had the means (or hell, a daughter) I think I would want to send her to an all girls school. What a great opportunity.
I’m an Australian, so please take what I say with a grain of salt!
I went to an all girls school for senior (in Australia that’s grade 8 – 12) and would not have wanted it in any other way. I would have preferred being in a girls only school for junior, too, but there simply wasn’t one in the vicinity.
My son will be going private from day dot – senior because I am not confident that the public system will cater to his needs. The private schools in our area have the bells and whistles that are important to me:
- Adequate sports facilities (pool, tennis courts, play equipment)
- Small class sizes (nothing above 25)
- Specialist classes from prep
- A lot of teacher aide funding
My son is either going to be v. bright or struggle. We’re looking for schools that offer both.
Have a look at the trajectory for learning between the sexes – girls learn differently from boys and often thrive in a junior environment away from the smelly things.
As for the liberal/democrat swing of things – my partner and I met working for the left in a student union. He teaches in the private system now… We would consider public if we were near a 100% fantastic school. The truth is those are few and far between and they would need all of the bells and whistles listed above.
My advice to you is to skip the pros and cons and come up with a list of things that you feel are important to your girls (as individuals) for learning and life that you want in a school, then make your decision based on that.
Good Luck! It’s hard!
From the time my little guy (J) was 6 months old we wanted to send him to the private school affiliated with our church. I had gone to a similar coed school for PreK-4 through 1st grade and had done really well and loved it. We started J off at 3 half days for PreK3, five half days for PreK4 and then he went five full days for K. The first two years were ok, but just ok. When Kindergarten started, he made it to mid-October before they kicked him out. Couldn’t handle his “special needs”. As if they had never heard of ADHD (later diagnosed on the Autism spectum). We cried. We tried home schooling even as we knew it wasn’t the best option and we kept looking around. Finally we put him in the public school in our small town in Delaware. The same public school that I graduated from, but that my brother and sister-in-law (J’s biological parents) dropped out of in their freshman year. What a surprise it was! It was much more organized and structured than the private school. J thrived and by the end of the year had friends and was happy. It was one of the hardest lessons of parenting. We thought we were doing so many things right sending him to the first school only to be COMPLETELY wrong. Very humbling. My point – be prepared to change after you make up your mind and be prepared for the option you choose to not be the best for both of your girls.
I went to a private school almost my entire life and didn’t like the materialistic side of it all. Seemed like a lot of snobby people there. Not only that, but the spoiled atmosphere seemed to breed a lot more rebellious nature in the students. Around town we had quite a reputation.
My oldest goes to public school and we plan on sending the younger two to a public charter school.
Maybe the decision is not public vs. private, but rather, what is the right school for your children? And the answer might be different for each of your daughters. I’d consider class size, the educational background and experience of the faculty, the type of activities and extra-curriculars, etc, before I’d screen based on public or private. I’d also try to go to the schools you’re considering and observe for a day. So much of a successful educational experience is based on the teacher and his/her relationship with your child.
Once you have more information, the choice may be completely obvious.
I went to a women’s college, and while I benefited from the experience, I would have benefited more had it happened earlier.
I went to public school through 8th grade, and to a private high school. The main differences I found were 1. more academic rigor, 2. more unapologeticness about academic rigor. At my high school smart = good in a way it had not in my earlier public school experience. 3. Possibly the most important difference: my private school was able to talk very explicitly about “values” if you will. About how it’s important to treat others with kindness, respect, etc. That was valued and fostered even above the academic rigor.
I guess that makes my vote clear.
Obviously, you know your girls and the situation better than any of us internet people, but I don’t think that getting a really good education and having an egalitarian philosophy are at all mutually exclusive. What they value will really come from you.
my kids go to a Catholic grade school mainly because our public schools are not the greatest in St Louis. Their school offers small class sizes and they tend to be very strict when it comes to behavior. I’m very pleased with the education and they challenge the kids to be the best they can be. We allowed our oldest daughter to decide if she wanted to go to the all girls high school this year or a public school. She chose the private school and one thing I want to add is think about this..at an all girls private school they are number ONE. They dont have to compete with the boys for anything and I think most girls will excell in that type of environment. I want my daughter to focus on her education and not the boy sitting next to her in class. I’m very pleased with her decision.
although my pocket book is hurting at the moment. Private school is not cheap!
One thing I’ve learned is that you are really the only one who knows what is best for your kids.
For us, public school has been fantastic. We go to a very diverse school (both income/racial diversity) with *very* low average test scores. But it has fantastic teachers, low class sizes, and great kids. Most of our neighbors go to private school. (And many of them have spoiled, materialistic kids…I don’t know if one can blame the school on that, though…)
The other day, my daughter (a blond Caucasian) was filling out a sheet on friendship for something or other. She listed her 10 best friends. I was struck that only three of them were white. I can’t assign a value to this – but I have to think that there is one.
She’s obsessed with Martin Luther King and the civil rights movement. We’ve read every MLK biography in the library. And she’s only seven. But maybe she would have these interests/friends if she went to an all-white private school. Who knows?
She also donates a large chunk of her allowance to the food pantry – because some of her friends get their food there. And yes, there is a downside to schooling with so much poverty. A big downside. Poverty is not pretty. It brings disruptive behavior, less “extras” at the school, etc. I could write a book on this topic, alone.
But it does feel good to see your child developing a sense of generosity on her own, without any parental prompting.
For us, public school has been amazing. But your mileage may vary.
And if these current budget cuts/NCLB stuff keeps going on – I don’t think ANY of us will still be in public schools in 10 years…even the die-hards like myself.
I don’t have kids, but work in an after-school mentoring program, and had a hybrid public-private experience myself, so here are my thoughts.
- make up the pro-con list based on what you know of your girls, and what you can learn about the specific schools you’re choosing between. My parents very kindly scoped out a bunch of schools for my brother and I, and chose based on what fit for us. My brother and I have never attended the same school because of this. (yay for buses and carpools)
- Try and observe the teachers in action/ ask for samples of the kids’ assignments/ etc. to get a feel for how the curriculum actually works. For their age, much of what’s important is the general approach towards learning, and not so much the specific curriculum (within reason, of course.)
- my experience: k-8 at a private school, 9-12 at public. The private school had large classes for a private (25/class) and cheap tuition, they were VERY structured and gave me a killer foundation in academics. The public school was considered pretty good, but the academics were pretty mediocre and beacuse I’m lazy, I got away with slacking off ridiculously since I could still pull mostly As. I got a great social education there, however, and expanded my knowledge of the world considerably.
I desperately craved structure when I was little – I even told my mom that I loved my 1st grade teacher because she ‘made the boys follow the rules.’ I think I would have floundered a lot in public school because of that; the chaotic feeling my dad got when he visited the public elementary school was my parent’s reason for choosing as they did.
I think that one thing to remember is that you can support the public schools even if you’re not sending your kids there – not in the ‘room mother’ kind of a way, but by other means. (Such as advocating for more national funding so that schools aren’t as dependent on unpaid volunteer labor (typically SAHMs) in order to function.)
Our daughter attends a private K-8 school now that is mixed gender. She will attend an all- girls school for high school.
It was not our intention, as it does not sound like it was yours, to go any route other than public school. Unfortunately our public school, although decent, did not have any of the other things we needed from it (before or after care or all day Kinder). It bothered us for a long time that we pay (Lots) of taxes to fund public school and still also must pay (Lots and lots) for our child to attend a (private) school that fit our family and her needs better.
It is not an easy decision but by reading your blog I am sure you will make the choice that is best for your girls. Best of luck to you.
I think that all-girls vs. coed would (as others have mentioned) be much more significant come puberty (middle or high school). Thus, you could start in public school and see what happened.
Of course, as a Canadian I know that my understanding of public schools is skewed by our system (funding is done globally, not by neighbourhood, so it is – I gather – much more even).
My son is 16 months old. School is a bit off. But we are not happy with our local public school. Too big, behavior problems, kids aren’t learning.
So we’re either going to move into town to a nicer school with better education and fewer kids, or we’re going to move further out and do private religious (not my religion) school and some home schooling no matter what. It’t going to take a lot of effeory on our part, but it should.
I haven’t read all of the comments so this may have already been mentioned — private school, depending on your area, may be more racially, ethnically diverse. It is where I live. But you also have to factor in economic diversity. I have a friend who teaches in a private school and she and I have talked at length about public v. private (i am always considering sending my oldest to private school) She points out that you cannot imagine the economic means of MOST of the kids who go to these schools that cost 20 k plus a year. They go to the islands AND skiing on spring break. THey have staff at home (Not a housecleaner, actual staff)
SHe really feels that kids from middle class, or, god forbid all of the kids on scholarships are very clearly segregated. So, I do NOT want that for my kids. Even though we live in an affluent town, in public school, everyone is equal AND there is a much wider range of kids. Kids of cops, kids of teachers and yes, kids of lawyers and doctors. Maybe not enough Asians for my taste, but we are so conscious and do so much outside of school that I am ok with it.
DS-L
O.K. I meet criteria #2 & 3…we chose to move to this area because of the public schools and enrolled our kids there for six years. The actual school was great – small (smaller than our new private school) and lots of opportunity to help and be in the classrooms. But, we saw “no child left behind” trickle down into our schools and watched the quality of the education change. All focus is now on the state mandated test. When asked about classes other than math or english, the answer was pretty much, “well, they don’t have that on the WASL” – translated “if it isn’t on the WASL, then it doesn’t matter.” Those trends, plus the implementation of half-day once a week (to give the teachers more time to prep for the state test), weren’t what we wanted. So, off to private school we went. It has been a good choice for us. We found what we were looking for academically. I think socially it is pretty good as well. It is definitely a very conservative environment (lots of “W” stickers on cars during the last election), but our kids know our beliefs and my oldest delights in wearing his anti-Bush t-shirt on free dress days. As for diversity, we actually have more diversity in this school than in the public school (we live in a very white area), and they all aren’t transracial adoptees (only my kids and one other family). I won’t pretend that it is an ideal ratio, but there are more families of color in this school.
Hi AM:
1.) Did you go to an all-girls school? Did you think the benefits were worth the investment?
yes, but only for high school. In fact, I think I went to the girl’s school you’re talking about. It was excellent, and I enjoyed the girl’s school atmosphere. (I went there a long time ago, but if you want impressions from long long long ago, feel free to e-mail me).
As someone else mentions, I did think that the private school could be more ethnically diverse than suburban/suburban like systems that rely on neighborhood feeder patterns. The diversity is contrived, but diversity is hard to find in any system.
2.) Did you send your kids to private school even though your public school is pretty good (and you pay a chunk of change in taxes to support it)?
Yes, I send my daughter to a private school, even though the public school is nearby and is pretty good. She is also a high performer, but I think she would have done well in the public school, too. I send her to private school because it is not a hardship for us financially, and I hope she gets more attention there. In my mind, it’s not a necessity but a luxury that we can afford without significant sacrifice. If in the future it did involve sacrifice, we’d probably keep her there, because she’s there already, but wouldn’t necesarily have made the decision to do it under different financial conditions.
(BTW, I am not in your city any more, so my private school decision has nothing to do with the school I attended. It is, frankly, less diverse in some ways than my high schookl was, though the racial patterns are different in the city I live in now, so it’s hard to make appropriate comparisons.)
3.)Are you a progressive/liberal democrat who has a strong belief in good, well-funded public schools….and you still sent your kid to private school anyway? Have you previously ranted about the importance of upper-middle class families not abandoning the public school system…and still sent your kid to private school? (Oh the shame!)
Yes, but I never ranted about people not using the public school system. My guilt doesn’t extend to not buying luxuries that I can afford, but does require me to be fully supportive of public education even while choosing not to use it. That means supporting tax levys, paying my taxes with a smile even if it doesn’t pay for _my_ kid’s education, and supporitng others in their efforts to improve education for all the children of my city. But, again, I can afford to do that (pay taxes & tuition).
I also do not feel that our schools are funded well enough to provide the education I want for my children. I would support raising taxes to provide that level of funding, but unfortunately, it looks like I’m a minority in my state in that regard.
bj
I went to private schools all the way – and I’m not sure it was the best choice for me. My elementary was very small, just one class per grade and not much differentiation offered. A few of us worked ahead in math in 4th grade and completed 4th and 5th grade math – only to have to redo 5th grade math again the next year. Partly because of this, my parents moved me to a larger private school in 7th grade. They considered the all girls school – only they found that it was very strong in liberal arts, but not in math and science. The middle/high school I ended up at was also stronger in liberal arts, but I was able to take (and pass) AP courses/tests in calculus and Physics. I was the only girl in my AP Physics class, but at least the class was there (and not watered down).
We’ve looked at private schools for our 2 boys (3rd and 6th grade), but haven’t felt that the ones available locally are particularly better than the public schools. Most of the private ones are religious in a way we’re not comfortable with – and while the behavior is better, the academics seem similar. Both kids have loved their gifted pullout program in elementary. It’s too early to tell about the middle school (this is only its 2nd year), but most of the parents we’ve talked to have had really good experiences.
Public has been fine so far, and we’ll stick with it as long as it continues that way. Plus, we have an excellent magnet high school program available (that my DH teaches at). It’s generally considered to have a better education than any of the private schools available.
Hi – I have put a lot of thought into the same question. I look at people I know and how they turned out, and wonder if the private vs. public education had anything to do with the outcome. I received all of my education in private schools that still have a reputation of being “elite.” I went off to my freshman year of college and managed to pull a 0.0 the second semester. My parents were very proud. HA! This was not a reflection on my highschool – but more due to the fact that I was just not ready to be so far away from my family yet. I had spent the year searching for the next fun party instead of in class. I should have waited a semester to go away to school. I came home and went to school in town and graduated with a high gpa.
I went to an all girls high school and LOVED it. My best friends from high school are still my best friends today. I don’t think this had a thing to do with private vs. public, but still feel so lucky to have them. I have wonderful memories of both grade school and of high school. My grade school experience was amazing – and that was all about the school. I would love to send my daughter – but it is pretty far out of my price range. She would be the fourth generation of our family to attend – so that kind of bums me out.
I was never the poorest or the wealthiest kid in the class. I remember who was though. In grade school it was not a big deal. In highschool it was a little bit bigger of a concern. But it was more about what kind of a kid you were.
One of my concerns with our daughter is also about choosing a school with a diverse student body. Most private schools are not as diverse as the public schools in our area. I really believe that a school is what you make of it. I think a person can get a great education at either type of school if they work at it. I think class sizes in private schools may often be smaller. I also think that depending on the private school – the facilities may be quite a bit nicer. We have a private school up the street though that has pretty scant facilities. It is supposed to be a great school – and the tuition reflects that reputation. I have also heard that kids coming out of it have no basic math skills. Yikes!
It seems to me that you can find any type of situation out there – good school, high tuition, bad school, high tuition, fabulous public school, rotten public school. There are several girls from my highschool class that hated our school. There was also a class below mine that was awful – personalities clashed, constant arguing. I would have hated highschool if I had been in that class. There are so many factors involved. I guess you have to make the best choice for your family and keep your fingers crossed.
The one regret I have about being sent to private schools now is when people ask me where I went to school – which is a popular question in the city I live in. I know that the peson asking is trying to attach a label to me. I also know the label I’m going to get when I answer. I loved both my primary and secondary schools and am proud to have attended. But I hate it when I am asked that question. People automatically turn up their noses and say “oh” – as if they have just decided I am a huge snob. It drives me nuts. I usually try and avoid the question and NEVER ask it myself.
I would opt for the all girls school. I’ve just had my 6 1/2 year old ask if she could go to all girls school–not an option in my area.
I really think that the benefits around middle school age would be great.
Okay, so I’m responding like 3 days after the fact but here goes.
I grew up down the road from where you live, in one of the snootiest suburbs. The public school education education I got was fantastic. My classmates? Not so much. All white, upper middle class and so damn snooty to anyone who was remotely different.
Your hood is a little more diverse than that place is, it seems. Maybe even a lot more diverse. For us, if we had access to a school as good as the one I went to, minus a good chunk of the snooty-ness, that’s where my daughter would go.
Unfortunately, we’ve learned that our neighborhood school is 70% Spanish-speaking and the focus of the school is on improving the students’ English skils.
Which is totally great as far as diversity goes and absolutely serves the needs of most of the neighborhood, but sucks for my kid. She’s a native English speaker without the language challenges that her peers in our neighborhood have.
Given that, she’ll most likely be attending a private school 20 miles north of us that teaches Chinese and English.
But, if we were in your situation, we’d probably lean towards the local schools, at least through elementary.
3) Not exactly. But I am a progressive liberal socialist pinko who believes strongly in the right of all children to an excellent education at the government’s expense and I am planning to home school.
Because I’m also a teacher who has many, many qualms about not just the public schools specifically, but schools in general. It’s a case of knowing enough to be worried, while most of my political stripe don’t know as much. We aren’t living the dream of good public education and I’m not willing to sacrifice my children’s realities to my political ideals.
Race and school is a vital factor too–ie: Black children underperforming and having low expectations from schools and being asssessed as problems early on, on the basis of race.
We can’t afford the kind of progressive private school I’d insist on and homeschooling means we never have to consider school districts in moves which is a factor speedily becoming uber relevant for us.