Ok, I have been reading all the comments with interest. It seems like over all, private school/girls school could be a great experience. Or public school could be a great experience. Or either one can be awful. Glad we cleared that up. Heh.
So far, we haven’t decided anything. Actually there is nothing to decide until M is in kindergarten (which doesn’t begin for another year) and we see how that goes. Right now, we are just rolling around the idea of private school to see how it feels. It is a fairly new thing for me to consider, at least for elementary school.
For later reference:
Pros of our Neighborhood school
Close to our house. Could walk to school. Free. House meticulously chosen to get most racially diverse and economically diverse school in (the walkable part of) our chosen suburb, though still not super high. (Still an awful lot of spoiled rich kids too.) Girls would have neighborhood friends. Good school district. Alternative high school and middle school programs. Some of our friends’ kids in the school.
Cons of our Neighborhood School
May not be academically challenging enough. Not really THAT diverse. No early foriegn language. No chinese classes (though there is a possiblity of independent Chinese study with the local university). Wasted time teaching to and taking standardized tests.
Pros of the Girls School
Girls only (we think this could be very advantageous by middle school age). Hopefully smaller classes. More academically rigorous. Spanish in elementary school. Maybe chinese for upper grades (I thought I read that somewhere, but I can’t find it on the website). Better for college admission. Cute uniforms. Bus from our local school to girls school. Good business contacts for Mr. A. Probably not that hard for M to get in.
Cons of Girls School
Cost of tuition (Approx $15k each kid -Yipes!). Distance from our house. Diversity. Might piss off my sister who thinks I am already snobby. Don’t know if it will be difficult for L to get in because we don’t know what academics will be like for her. If she has learning disabilities, might not be best school for her (though we have no reason to worry about this yet). Elitism/rich kids.
Unknowns about Girls School
Most real details not available on website. Diversity.
I had more to say, but I have a headache, so I am going to stop for now.
seems to me like since you spent so much time choosing where you lived based on the schools, it’d be worth it to give it a chance. it can’t hurt to start M out there and decide to switch if you’re not happy, right?
i think the diversity thing would be my biggest issue (esp. since that was so important to you from the get-go). i love that our neighborhood is so economically diverse (if not so much racially).
i’m not sure i’d be willing to fork over 15k/year without knowing first that the public school isn’t going to meet her needs. of course, that’s just IMHO.
So, interesting thing-I looked up the school ranking of the “elite” public elementary school I went to 35 years ago. It doesn’t rank. Looking at the demographics, it is 92% AfAm. Hmm-I remember when Mike S., the first AfAm kid at our school, arrived in 5th grade. This seems like a huge shift in 30 years-so I called my Mom (retired from teaching there). She reminded me that when I was in college or thereabouts, the district restructured to primary and intermediate elementary schools and started bussing kids from neighbor town to our town for K-2nd. Yeah, I thought that was a great idea at the time-diversity, spreading resources etc. Well, more families in our town started pulling kids and shifting to private (I would say 15% of the neighborhood kids went to private when I was in school).
-but maybe think about ways to be involved. Our neighborhood mommies yahoogroup has about 600 members, so it really helps us connect with people with similar interests-we have subgroups for everything from cooking, hiking to advocacy. If you don’t have a similar resource in your neighborhood, you might try starting one-the mother who started ours 4 years ago was blown away by the response-she is even being contacted by political candidates now who want to “reach” our group.
Just to be perfectly clear, the AfAm population isn’t what I am identifying as the problem-it is the withdrawal of white students. This is actually a huge problem in Chicago area school districts-one that was discussed a lot at my high school reunion, as we looked at the “suburban migration pattern” of where people live now (it is relatively rare for people raised in Chicago to leave permanently, as I did-there is this weird cultural thing)-anyway, the impact on the schools of so many people leaving reminds me that I really want to stay public (which is good, since I don’t have the resources for private).
This morning I received an email advertising for a Director for my neighborhood parent run nonprofit that is putting pressure on the public schools to invest more in kids, and I am excited that they are investing in a formal structure-so I think I am going to volunteer to help with their fundraising. Something to think about-this nonprofit organizes parents to do school tours and q&a with administrators to create constructive dialogue and demonstrate neighborhood commitment to the schools. We have brought in a lot of funding, including corporate donations, for school programs-and helped create a primary grade international baccalaureate program (a great option, I’m just not at all confident that we can get in). My neighborhood schools are 60% Hispanic, though the households are 60% white, and we have about 30 families in the neighborhood adoption group I helped create, mostly transracial.
Not that you have any free time right now
Ok, that was kind of a segue back to your comments about finding more mom friends with similar interests ; ) ~lmc
Lisa’s comment about “withdrawing the white kids” being a problem brought up an interesting point about diversity for me. When a minority family sends their kid to a non-diverse private school, they produce an increase in diversity in the environment they’re entering. This might not be a good thing for the first family (Mike, your first AfAm kid). But, it makes a difference for the second, and maybe the third. I’m not saying this is a reason that one should send one’s minority kid to a non-diverse environment. But, I’m saying that the concerns and questions are different than one a white child joins a non-diverse environment.
bj
PS: And, Asians actually throw a different set of variables into the mix, since there are “elite” environments where we are over-represented (Berkeley) as well as under-represented (country clubs).
Oh, yeah-Mike wasn’t the first non white kid-just the first AfAm. The town still attracts a lot of immigrants-European as well as South American, Indian and Asian-mostly doctors-about 10% of the demographic. Fortunately for Mike, he was an outgoing, very well liked popular kid, though they moved out of the area before high school graduation, and I often wonder what their “real” experience was like, and what he is doing now. Come to think of it, I don’t even know whether his parents were AfAm.
I wanted to mention one thing about a “challenging environment”. In our city, it seems many schools are taking this to the extreme, boasting about all their kids learning at 1 or 2 or more grades above level. One school looked very interesting to me. DD is adopted from China and DH, who speaks Mandarin, is beginning to teach her the language. There’s a private school in the city which is French immersion and begins teaching a choice of Mandarin or Japanese to kids in Grade 1. This school also states on its website that by Grade 1, the kids not only speak, read and write English and French at levels well above kids in other schools, but that going into Grade 1, they’ve learned all the basic math skills, not only addition and subtraction and also multiplication and division. Oh, and they also learn a musical instrument. Honestly, I’m all for a challenging environment, but that website gave me the creeps…it sounded Stepfordish for lack of a better word. I also think that kids should be kids and that school should be fun. I’ve often read that the appropriate amount of homework for a child is 10-15 minutes per grade, so 10-15 minutes in Grade 1, 20-30 in Grade 2, etc. up to about an hour in later grades. That sounds much better to me than expecting an hour or more of homework from a 7 year old. So I do think challenge is good, but we have to make sure that our kids are happy, well rounded individuals. I personally prefer schools that teach and challenge their students individually, not expecting ALL kids to be able to read, write and do all basic math functions even before entering Grade 1 – that’s just setting so many of them up for failure! So in the end, the school with the awesome Mandarin program, as much as I wanted to love it, I know just isn’t for us.
Just a comment about standardized tests. Private schools use standardized tests even MORE than do public schools. They give the ERB yearly at every private school I’ve ever heard of, and they use those scores as a marketing tool. LOOK at the literature of private schools and you’ll see clearly that they tell you about their ERB scores in the brochures and marketing literature, including web sites.
Additionally, they can ‘fix’ the scores, and schools do it a lot. What they do is to keep all the ‘special needs’ kids in a separate room than the other kids, and then don’t send in those scores. There have been MANY scandals in the private school world because of this action, and yet the private school my kids attended (where I pulled them out) did that with my daughter’s scores. There were 12 kids in her class and only 6 reported scores. Half the class was unreported in order to keep the scores up. Cheaters!
With private schools you HAVE to remember first and foremost that they are a BUSINESS. Their job is to make money first, and to educate second. They have to compete with each other and with parochial and public schools. They will do ANYTHING to make themselves look better so you will invest your money in their school. They are experts in doing this. EXPERTS. You have to be extra dilligent in looking at private schools. They have a vested interest in looking better on paper than in reality. It’s important to talk to families they DO NOT recommend you speak to. You’ll get the real story with the non-cheerleader families.
This is a great discussion, I have read all the comments and the one about sending children to increase the diversity and how that could make a difference down the road makes me nervous. I wrote yesterday that the only children of color in my private high-school (4) were inter-racially adopted. That made us all feel creepy. One of the guys was a junior when I was a freshman and through the 6 degrees of life knew my brother from basketball camps and mutual friends. He wouldn’t talk to me at school of course, I was a frosh, but at my house he would ask me how it was going and if I was fitting in and he gave me some pointers. We never talked about it at school, in fact we made every effort to not hang out at school or even talk to one another, the looks that we exchanged in the hallways said it all. ” I see you and you see me, yes we are the same, but for god’s sake do not call that to anyone’s attention.” Done.
It just plain sucks to be the only, the 4th or the 5th, we have to be careful of the roles that we place on our childrens shoulders to “diversify” a group or church, or a school. I was 27 years old and sitting at a girlfriend’s wedding shower and I looked around the room and just held my breath, it was the first time in my life that I wasn’t the only person of color at a social/family function. The bride-to-be was brown like me and all of her friends and family were too and there in chairs over by the window were two of her co-workers, two “peach” friends. I was stunned and tears came to my eyes. That only took me 27 years I thought.
Don’t read this and assume raising a child interracially she will never fit in, that could not be further from the truth, but it gets tiring to be the voice, the face and the representative. There is pressure there, spoken and unspoken. You have to be aware of it.
I just love that you put “cute uniforms” in your Pro column for Private School. I would completely do that too…
My sister thinks I’m snobby too – and I send my kids to public school. So you really can’t win there.
Good luck with your decision. I think the bottom line is that with involved, caring parents – our kids will be FINE wherever they might end up in school.
$15k a year per child?? Oh my God, that took my breath away. I think it’s worth it to at least give public school a chance for that kind of money. Think of what else your family could do with those resources! If public school is lacking in foreign language or any other subject, you could easily afford private lessons for much less. AND have more financial freedom to take fun and educational family vacations in the US, abroad, or both.
If you accelerate your child early on, that is fine, but you need to have a plan to keep her in it until HS graduation. Otherwise there will a period of time where learning stops until the other kids catch up to her.
1. If your child is receiving language instruction, she needs to continue it all the way through school or she will lose it. I went to an accelerated private school from K-4th. Everything we did was one grade level ahead. I was a very bright child, reading at 3, identified letters at 13 months. I took French at school K-4. We then moved overseas and I went to a hippy-dippy Dept. of Defense school for 5-7. Fifth grade was a repeat of fourth grade — waste of a year. Eighth grade, we moved back to the states and I took French I. Luckily French II was not an option because my mother wanted me in it and I remembered nothing but “bon jour” from my early years of French. Now, in my kids’ high school, the Spanish teachers don’t recommend the kids taking the AP Spanish Language test because the test is set up for either native Spanish-speakers or kids who have taken Spanish since Kindergarten.
2. If you are having your child accelerated in math, then find out how high math goes in the high school she will attend. If she takes Algebra I before 8th grade, she might run out of math classes to take in high school. Certainly, a bright 6th or 7th grader is equipped to take algebra, but you don’t want to run out of math options later in hs, when it needs to be fresh for ACT’s, SAT’s and taking college math. The “oh, don’t worry, she can continue her math at community college while she’s in high school” is not ideal. It’s hard to fit it in the schedule if she’s involved in sports, theatre, clubs, etc. Also the people in her classes at CC are usually older and not necessarily people you want her getting together with for study groups.
I’m sure you will make the right decision for her, but I’m not sure accelerating kids early on is the greatest idea. I went to college at 17 and I feel that I lacked maturity. I am more in favor of using the extra brain power for extra programs in music, drama, art or wherever her interests lie.
$15k per kid?…are you insane?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
…get a tutor and put the rest in a college fund.
The indictment of private schools above can be made for any school or institution — that they want to look as good on paper as possible. Clearly, it’s wrong to assume that private is best without looking at what they actually have for you.
Yes, the school that teaches french immersion, mandarin, and a musical instrument sounds super creepy. I think a school like that can work for some — I had a friend in college who needed to be doing a million things to be happy, and felt that way as a child. She didn’t play or relax well, and being forced to made her unhappy. But, she was pretty unusual.
bj
Here’s another view of the small private school situation, as experienced by my then-middle-school-aged niece. My sister put her children in a catholic private school for many of the reasons cited – accelerated academics, small class sizes, etc. Her class size was so small that there were only 11 kids in her classroom. Middle school is treacherous territory for girls for so many reasons, not the least of which is the catty-girl-stuff…Unfortunately for my niece, she was not part of the “in crowd” clique of girls, and was ostracized, teased, bullied, etc, to the point that my sister withdrew both of my nieces from the school and put them in the larger, more diverse public school. So, although the private school was better suited for the academic needs of my nieces, they were much happier in public school where they both had friends AND got better grades.
I recommend that you observe classes in both of the schools that you are considering. So much depends on the teacher – and on what is truly best for your child.
This is a great discussion. I love the varied view points. I have to agree with the folks who are advising that you give the public school a chance before you spend the big $$ on private. Some of our country’s public school systems are doing a bang up job. I have a “gifted” student who just graduated this spring. He’s leaving Saturday for one of the big state universities. We decided to stick it out with the local public school and for us, it was the right decision. Especially with the high school…they were prepared for these bright kids and they offer so many honors and AP classes. The good thing here is that you’re just starting out and you can work it a little bit until you find the best solution. If you’d waited just a little longer to read the new Harry Potter book, M could have read it to you!
Oh, but has anybody chimed in and said that HOME schooling would be great too?
I know I should read it all and find out but I’m only being snarky and really shouldn’t have to work hard for it!
Reallly, I am kidding.
I home school BUT it is not an ideological thing.
Count me in the camp of Dead Against Private School. I spent 12 years in an all girls school. I think one of your pros (for private school) bears further investigation, though. Take a good hard look at what colleges their graduates attend. Your kids may stand a better chance of getting into a better university coming from your local public school than coming from private school. Then again they may not. But if your local school offers a broad spectrum of AP courses, that’s usually a good sign. FWIW, my highschool was incredibly weak in math and science. Not that those subjects really mattered since we were there for finishing school anyway. Oh, one more thing. What do the girls wear to hs graduation? Seriously, if it’s long white dresses and gloves and they carry bouqets, RUN. I’m just saying.
Seriously, the way all schools are now, I feel like unschooling, or an alternative school, is the way to go!
Figlet, hee hee! Actually, my PUBLIC high school had the girls wear long white dresses and carry roses, and made the boys wear white tuxedos for graduation (like I said in an earlier comment, VERY high tax base)…..I chose not to attend, and went to a play with my family to celebrate instead.
Very true comments about private versus public schools. I live in San Francisco, where the private schools are a joke, but you’d never know if you believed their PR.