A few weeks ago, I read Queen Bee Moms & Kingpin Dads at the suggestion of Chicagomama. You can read summaries of the book elsewhere, but it basically describes the different types of personalities of other parents you will encounter when your kid is in school.
When I read it, I was filled with dread. I already survived the gauntlet of Jr. High and High School cliques. I have no desire to relive that again, especially not with my daughter’s social position & education on the line. Yuck.
Coincidentally, last week, I went to my very first PTA meeting at the school where M will attend kindergarten. There is a lot of talk about improving/changing the school, so a lot of parents were there. The friend I attended the meeting with chose to sit at the front and center table. When I walked up, it was obvious that this table was filled with the PTA leadership. Among the PTO moms and dad there was a lot of snarking about how only 10 people usually show up at PTA meetings and how surprised they were that about 65 people where there that night.
It took only about two minutes before I knew that I was walking into the heart of Queen Bee land. The agenda was my first clue. The first item was an introduction of the new officers. It listed the following positions:
-President
-1st Vice President
-2nd Vice President
-3rd Vice President
-Treasurer
-Assistant Treasurer
-Recording Secretary
-Membership Secretary
-Outreach Secretary
-Incentives Secretary
Now, if only 10 people usually attend the meetings, do they all need a title? And 3 vice presidents?? What is that about?
The meeting involved a lot of round table discussions. At each table, I seemed to end up with at least one or two PTA officers. The tried to steer the topic to meet their own agenda, rather than allowing the input of the community.
After reading the Queen Bees book, it was like I was watching conversation with a silent translation in the back of my head. One example:
Me: I am disappointed that I heard about this forum via playground gossip, rather than from the school. My daughter will be in kindergarten next year and we are very concerned about the future of the school.
PTO Mom: Well, I have a sixth grader, a third grader and a first grader at this school. *We* have been involved with this school for for seven years and will be here for *six* more. We are VERY invested in the school.
TRANSLATION: I have been here LONGER than YOU, young interloper. We know more people and we have more power. You better remember your place. *WE* are in charge here.
The thing is, I also recognized myself jockeying and planting my flag in the school. Despite my displeasure when I read the Queen Bees book, I could see myself negotiating the social heirarchy. Having read the book didn’t change how I reacted to the situation, but it did illuminate why I do what I do naturally. I am not a Queen Bee, but I know how to keep my head above water and get what I want.
I think I will try to attend more of the PTO meetings this year. I also volunteered for the research committee to work on the curriculum changes. And I might offer to write a grant or two for the school.
This is surprising, even to me.
Erica is totally dealing with this at her school. She says it’s hell because if you do something, the PTA Queen Bees get very bitchy if you don’t go through proper channels as deemed by THEM so last year she was constantly locking horns with this one woman.
I visited the school this past week for an interview and observed a first grade. It’s a nice school and the ratios are LOW but from looking at the class pictures, not as diverse as I’d thought from looking at the numbers. And there was only one black teacher. Rats.
O thank god we don’t have this stuff over here.. School and playground politics of course but not with titles (or do I think this because my husband is in the parents advice commision?
Imagine if you were a “gasp” “working” mother — try to get involved then! I’ve found the PTO Moms clang the gates shut when one of those bad mothers show up. — Everything has to be done Tuesday at 10 am you know???
DS-L
Our children are in 2nd and 3rd grades. I realized very quickly 3 1/2 years ago that we went back to junior high when we registered our children in public school. Some of the parents are, simply put, dreadful! It’s amazing to me that some folks never grow out of that junior high mentality.
Our children are now in a private school. So far, so good, but we’re new. I really hope that the parents aren’t AS BAD as public, but I’m not holding out a lot of hope. Who knows…maybe they’re even more dreadful.
Tell us, is the book worth the read? How is it helpful?
Thanks,
Traci
I echo the sentiments of DS-L about being a working mom – the Queen Bees slam the doors in our faces. I don’t have the time or patience for their crap, and so I probably do my kids a disservice by refusing to get involved.
I may have an answer for why 3 vice-presidents, though. Our city Bar Association does this as well (although we have a lot more than 10 people at a meeting.) But, anyway, by tradition, the president of the Bar Association is the person who was 1st vice president the year before, who was 2nd vice president the year before that, who was 3rd v.p. the year before that. So, the only position that there is any competiton for is 3rd v.p. – basically to decide who will be the Bar Assn president 3 years hence. (Kind of nuts, I know, but, the person gets an idea of what the job entails during the 3 years that they are v.p.) So, I’m guessing that the same goes for you PTO…just a conjecture – on the other hand, maybe they are all just megalomaniacs.
Gretchen
It doesn’t have to be this way. This makes me really sad, but reinforces why I am in a school of choice- I hate to even say it out loud, but a charter school. Really there are so many charter schools with bad reps that I hate pointing it out. We are a very progressive project based school, we have a huge amount of parental involvement. About the only thing the “old guard” will shut another parent down on is fundraising. We have a no student fundraising policy. Instead we have a fall drive where we out and out ask parents and others for money. You wouldn’t believe how many people when asked for $25 will say “why don’t we sell cookies, magazines, etc.” I’m sure they feel we are assholes while we explain that we don’t think selling is a student’s job, and also we only get 50% of the profits on subpar products.
I know we still have parking lot gossip, and communication problems. Also some of the working parent problems. In our second year we had to make a policy that committee level meetings must meet at night. There was just no other way to ensure that the stay at home parents weren’t organizing stuff that fit only their schedule. Still, I really don’t see working parents as plugged in. When you are the parent who is there three times a week and driving for trips etc. you start to become close to those who you work with the most. So those are the people you rely on, and you don’t call on others. It’s not malicious, it happens.
Our parent board (we purposefuly don’t have a PTA) is focusing this year on developing more parent leaders and what’s the best way to do that. This year our original kindergarten class will graduate from 8th grade. We will lose most of the founding families and their energy. Many families that have come afterward haven’t had to struggle the same way we have, they haven’t had to take charge because someone else was. We’re holding a ton of get to know yous, workshops, etc.
I realize this book focuses on how these behaviors play out in the parent/teacher dynamic, but, a very good friend of mine who has been a city planner for 40 years, when I was feeling upset at having been out maneuvered by the dance crowd clique (oh yes, every dance community has one)-he said “don’t fool yourself, it’s ALL high school redux.” Last night I was struggling with how the QBs have taken over the knitting circle that I was a “charter member” of 18 mos ago. They do the withering and deprecating manner to anyone they consider not cool enough, very well, and we are losing fabulous members because of it. The host keeps asking me to come back and help counteract it, so that people come back but a) everyone loves the QBs and wants to be like them and they’re only unhappy when the QBs frown at them, and b) as I navigate around the room trying to interact with all of the quieter people to prevent them from feeling marginalized, I can feel the strain that this puts on my relationship with the QBs-some of whom I like individually, it’s just the clique mentality that’s always the problem, in everything. I can do it-but it isn’t fun anymore. Good luck-it’s hard when it’s something that is really important to you, and thus you need to find a place to insert yourself in the dynamic and do things you would rather not do ~lmc
My daughter is 4 and in full-time daycare/pre-school. I can already tell I’m screwed when it comes to kindergarten next year.
OMG, DS-L’s comment rang a total bell with me. Last year my daughter was in Kindergarten at a different school, an dI was finishing my last year for my BA. A calender came home listing a “Stay at Home Mom’s Tea” on a Thursday each month at 1:30pm. The thing is, that might have been “Queen Bee”ish enough, but the flyer that came round about it detailed that Title 1 would be presenting ideas and materials about how to help your children study, etc. Which, ya know, seems like it should be available for ALL parents, right?
Well, I called the lady listed ad the contact and asked if here woulf be another meeting at a time when more parents could attend. She of course said, no, and was very shocked that I had a problem with it at all. I’m not a real confrontational person, so I thought about it a lot before I called in the first place, and when I did call I kept my voice reasonable and as non-threatening as I could. Yet as soon as I said, “I guess I just feel that this is discriminating against moms and dads who work, and I’m sure there are lots of parents like me who would like the opportunity to hear and receive this Title 1 stuff,” she immediately became quite rude and said, “well, maybe *you* are discriminating against stay at home moms.”
Which really blew my mind. I remember that I was quite upset for awhile after that. Now I can laugh at those women who actually think that *just* because they “stay at home” and can attend meetings during the afternoons they are better mothers than any other woman, and more entitled to “run things”. But it took me a little while. ;P
Good luck. I’m kind of a deer in those social headlights.
I’m laughing at your list of officers. Our PTA is like that too. Oh, and the accolades they give themselves at the year-end meeting! The comments are making me really sad because I’ve also seen the discrimination against working parents. I’m a little afraid to read that book.
I chuckled when I saw Chicagomama’s comment about it. I read it last year (my eldest is in 2nd Grade) and I’m on the parent board (Note it is not a PTA). Both books are a good read and I will reread as needed – when I get them back.
I found it quite comforting in a weird way as it helped me navigate the dynamics. But then again I would be classified as a floater. Was in HS, am now too.
And yes working parents do get screwed. I was initially and am not now which is why i’m involved. Its hard but you have to fight back. There should not be discrimination either way. But its hard to please both camps.
Mind you having done the parent board thing…we’re now leaving the school as I’ve found out far too much about how the dynamics work that I don’t want my kids there. For the next school…am keeping my head down for quite a while.
I am dealing with my first year of PTAs and public education in our area. What I find most amazing and offensive is how closed minded the school’s clan is. They may say they want parental involvement but if you go in there with a new set of eyes and questions asking how and why things are done one way as opposed to another way – watch out! You quickly become parent-non-grata. They can’t really give you answers and make you feel like somehow you’re the crazy one. I realize this is why so many simply stop attending meetings etc – they don’t have the time or energy for the long haul it takes for change. It’s sad but I guess we’re right behind 3cmum and after having seen the school close-up we may be heading for a school of choice next year….
heh. I would so not be the cool kid in the queen bee club.
This reminds me of a friend of mine whose son recently started Kindergarten. She tried to volunteer to help out at the school and she was delegated “popcorn maker” for the PTA meetings. Okay, then. But then she went to the meeting and found out that one of the mom’s who volunteered had the job of filing student papers in their folders that contained their grades, disciplinary action and communication with the parents. So the entire meeting was spent gossiping on whose 6 year old was the dumb one, the bad one, or the one that had the most calls to the parents. She then mentioned something about confidentiality and they looked at her as if she was speaking a foreign language.
I don’t look forward to any of that.
They aren’t all like that! Our PTA is mostly working parents – and just as many dads participate as moms. Disclaimer: I’m the PTA co-president and I work outside the home part-time. I share the job with a working dad. Our meetings are 1 hour – no more – and we have a very strict agenda – all school-related. We’d love, love, love to have more people involved. Especially people who are willing to write grants!
Maybe they were just having a bad night?