So. I don’t know who couldn’t see that coming.
Mr. A went with M and my mom (and various other relatives) to the “Jesus Play” at the Megachurch. As he was pulling out of the parking lot he called me ranting about it. I believe some of the statements he was making were: “You mom wants to make up for not giving your any religion by reparenting with our kids!”; “That play was kind of racist. Your mom saw this last year and she thinks a group of Asian kids singing about how they see Jesus with an Asian face isn’t WEIRD?” and “It wasn’t even just a Christmas play. They showed the crucifiction! M was totally freaked out by watching a guy get killed! Who thinks that is appropriate for a four year old??” Mr. A also took exception with my mom’s saying “Well, at least M knows the story of Jesus now.”
After a bit of time to chill out, we had a more rational conversation.
My mom and I had a fight this summer about a Jesus book she was reading to M. Mr. A had let me have the fight with no backup from him, even though we both agree that religious instruction is a parent’s role, not the grandparents. Because Mr. A was such a pussy this summer avoiding that fight, he is now going to have to face the music and deal with this head on with my mother. That will not be fun.
Mr. A is now convinced that we have to fill the religous vacuum so that my mom will not feel it is her job to provide religion. He also thinks it would be good for the girls to grow up in a religious community of some sort. He wants to try going to church somewhere we mutually agree on once a month.
This is a problem because Mr. A and I have very different religious beliefs. Last night, we sat down and both took the Belief-o-matic to see if there was any common ground.
My top 11 results:
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Mr. A’s top 10 results:
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It looks like a UU church might be ok for both of us based on the test, but in reality, we both have problems with it. I have been to a local UU church a few times with a friend and I found it almost entirely white. Mr. A has particular issues with the high hippie ratio and doesn’t want to be a token for a bunch of uber-liberal diversity seekers. (He is imagining either two-handed, too-long welcoming handshakes or even worse: hugs.) If we found a congregation with decent diversity, I do really like the idea of a UU church because the kids would almost certainly grow up to be good liberals (as are Mr. A and myself). Also, the sex ed girl in me really likes the idea of the UU sex ed program for teens. That hardly seems like a good reason to go to a UU church though. Mr. A also finds the lack of Jesus and the bible at the congregation I attended to be a bit troublesome.
As for the liberal quakers, we only know one Quaker. We attended her wedding and we both found it to be a bit…odd. It might be worth considering trying to find a local congregation to try once or twice, but I have heard that a lot of the Quakers in our area are programmed meetings and pretty evangelical (according to the Quaker friend) and I don’t think this is what the Belief-o-matic was referring to.
This leaves us with another unsatisfactory option. Mr. A could take the girls to a Christian church and I could try to find someplace of my own (buddhist temple or something?) and eventually bring the girls. That just sounds like a colossal pain in the ass, since I don’t really care that much about finding religion. On the other hand, I don’t want the girls going exculsively to a Christian church because I don’t believe in it.
Also, there is the question of which Christian church Mr. A would attend. He is prone to choose the Chinese church, but I am adamently opposed. The local Chinese church is very, very evangelical. It’s theology isn’t at all in line with Mr. A’s Liberal Protestant results, he would just choose it because it is convenient. Another option is Mr. A attending church with a friend of ours who goes to a United Church of Christ church that sounds very liberal.
I am kind of hoping Mr. A just loses interest. We already spend 3 hours at Chinese school on Sundays and church sounds like a huge pain. Also, I don’t know how we would manage church with two little kids. There is no way that L could go to a nursery without us and I think it might wig M out a little too. It seems unfair to ask such small children to sit still quietly for over an hour at a time.
Honestly, I just don’t care about religion. Maybe I would if I started going somewhere, but I kind of doubt it.
I go to a UU church. Ours is also kind of white but not overwhelmingly… I’d say no more than 85-90%.
There isn’t any hugging at ours, just coffee socializing.
I started ruining my lazy Sunday mornings by becoming a UU a few years ago. There’s a definite lack of Jesus Christ in the sermons (unless the minister happens to be going through major names in spiritual philosophy) but there are Christian UUs. I don’t count myself among them, so the lack of the big J.C. in sermons sits quite right with me.
I like the way the older kids seem to turn out. The sexuality classes are supposed to be first-rate. I also love the sound of “the committee for social justice.”
Well, since my exposure to organized religion other than pop culture comes from:
- 1 week at Sunday school when I had a broken leg
- 3-4 mornings of daycare when my parents played music for Sunday services
- a hilarious visit to an evangelical church, where I said that Joan of Arc was the main martyr I could think of
and
- 2 or 3 UU youth cons (which rocked, esp as they were a collection of people from all different fellowships.)
I can completely sympathize with not being all that into the religion thing. I can see where you might want a more robust approach than I had to introducing religions to your girls, but I also think that it’s completely reasonable to not include yourself in the church thing if it’s not what you believe – Mr. A can teach them about his beliefs that way, and you can teach them about yours through some other avenue. Either way, you can both insist on a lack of proselytizing megachurches simply based on the fact that they aren’t what you want for the girls.
I’m being rushed off the computer, so this may not make as much sense as I’d like, but hopefully the gist is still there.
I am UU. We are white. We hug, but only a little. I really hear you on the “uber-liberals searching for tokens” bit; that does go on.
This is all unsolicited advice, but I would think cautiously about going to some church, any church, to placate family. This is how we ended up at the UU church a few years ago–my mother eventually cottoned to the fact that it isn’t really Christian, so we still have to have those conversations, and I really like the people at our church but the theology never quite fit and still really really chafes. It’s valid to skip the religious community if it doesn’t fit for you. AND it’s valid to tell the other family to shove off on the sermons.
The good news is that we have a whole crop of young UU’ers getting ready to start the OWL program, and I might hopefully get to help teach. YAY!
I used to live in Richmond (Quaker capitol) and can connect you with some people near you. If you are looking at Unitarian, I would look at the UUA website-congregations vary widely, and there is a strong group within learning about Jesus. I belong to a downtown society which is quite diverse, but I still worry about the overall whiteness of the tradition-though lots of transracial families. But I will mention, a lot of families are attracted to UU when they really want nondemoninational (when I was more active, I was on a committee to interview members about their experiences)-and no one is satisfied in that circumstance. So you might use the beliefnet results as a basis for discussion.
I used to teach the UU sexuality class btw, and it is fabulous.
And, though UUs do like diversity, I have never seen them be condescending or overexuberant (they’re too reserved for that, another issue entirely)-and there are several AsianAms (mostly Japanese) and a handful of AfAms at my society. Oh, Quaker traditions can be hard on kids-rituals are useful for conveying meaning. ~lmc
You know, mainline liberal protestant like UCC or Episcopal or Lutheran might be just fine for you. For one thing, the belief-o-matic only tests what you think, not what kind of community you’d like. And in a lot of those churches, what you think isn’t necessarily important in the community (In spite what it all says on paper, hence whatever belief-o-matic rates it as). You can be a atheist buddhist and do just fine in my church, for example. In fact, some of the best Episcopalians I’ve known have been atheists and many of them love contemplative prayer which isn’t unlike Buddhist meditation. (I’ve done both.)
Anyway, in my personal experience UU’s are pretty white. If you’re only going to go once a month and if mentions of Jesus don’t give you hives just in and of themselves, you might be okay as a mainline protestant. Look around for a church whose people you like, whose politics you like. You live in a large enough area, there’s bound to be something.
But all that said, I don’t agree with Mr. A. You don’t have to give your kids religion to appease your parents. They’re your kids. Sound like Mr. A. maybe wants to do this but doesn’t want to cop to it and is using your parents as an excuse?
Oh yeah. And if the church you visit frowns on your kids not being quiet enough, it’s not a real church anyway. My kid dances to the music in the aisles during church and that is okay. I don’t want her thinking church is a time-out punishment!
ugh. Good luck with this situation. I have no wise words to offer, but am sending lots of “hope this blows over soon and M doesn’t have to watch any more crucifications” vibes your way.
I,too, would love to have a faith community, but alas, the idea of God and Jesus and saints just doesn’t sit well with me. I try to believe it, I truly do but I just don’t. My husband and I are not quite sure what to do with our hypothetical future children, but if the guilt my Catholic mother is laying on brother and his baby mama to get their child baptised is a sign of what’s to come we are in serious trouble.
Or you can come hang out with me, kjames and Patti some Sunday. We promise not to bite and I’ll make sure to call ahead so they don’t bring out the snakes.
…I can’t believe they did the crucification. No, I take that back. I’m not surprised.
Woman, if you find a decent faith community for secular humanists, I want to know about it, my friend! By definition, Christianity holds that Christ is The path–The Only Path–to salvation. I’d think twice before I encouraged my son to join a group that would forever place his mama on the outside.
I’ve been thinking of checking out the local UU churches, but I decided to wait until the kids are old enough for Sunday school. Otherwise, I know they won’t sit quietly, so probably my husband would have to take them during the service, and I would be sitting all on my lonesome in a church full of strangers. Not so fun for me.
Maybe your mom will chill out if you tell her you plan to start taking them to church when they are school-age. At least she would know that you aren’t ignoring religion completely (?). Do you think a UU church would be enough to satisfy her, anyway?
I go to UU and mostly like it except for the one thing you mention. the whiteness desparately looking for diversity issue. People don’t hug so much and they are definately not all hippies. In fact, some of the them are more socially conservative who consider themselves to be major rebels because they ditched their original faith (like if they grew up Catholic or whatever, now they are so rebelious! But really not so much.)
I think the kids turn out well. I am very impressed by the highschool and young adult kids there. Interestingly, kids that grow up UU are not statistically likely to stay. They do value their freedom that they learn there. The OWL program starts in Kindergarten (birds and bees), then 5th grade (puberty) and then middle and high school sex ed (solid info like BC and STDs etc. and a build your own moral code approach about sex and relationships.)
Kids can be loud and dance in the isles. My kids love the nursery, and then the rest is religious ed. The RE is pretty relaxed. They aren’t required to sit there and learn catechisms or whatnot. As a sunday school teacher, I have been known to chuck it and head outside on a nice day, and no one seems to mind. Our church does have a ‘cry room’ in the back which is an actual mini play room. Every once in a while my kids will want to come up there and be with me in that room and they have fun. I know parents who have adopted kids or kids with other issues in regards to separation anxiety who spend every service back there.
The diversity issue is a big one for me. I think much of it depends on the congregation and the minister. The UUA president is black, and supposedly now they are starting to admit that there is a real problem with diversity and what to do about it without going all tokenesque. But, yeah, D and I are often sorta made to feel like we are totally welcome there! As if that is special that they extend that to us! And then often never talked to again. but I will say that after 3-4 YEARS of sticking it out, we are finally developing some real relationships. Ugh.
UU’s partner with United Church of Christ a lot. I find them to be UU but with more Jesus. They also do the OWL program, btw. That might be a nice compromise.
Oh! the other thing you could do is sort of a ‘church at home option’ with the UU Church of the larger fellowship. Or, hell, you could just tell your mother that’s what you are doing to appease her and just blow the whole thing off! ; )
For some reason my last name has been on these lately. Not my plan at all. I trust that there are no stalkers here, but letsee, does this work?
Sorry, I wanted to figure out how to fix this!
oh shit. joybucket wants me to leave my snake at home? forget it.i never go to church without the snake! always be prepared, i say.
Mr. Y & I have been alternating between two services: one, a small (30+) Presbyterian congregation of mostly 20 – 40 year-old Korean Americans, and the other, a larger, mostly but not entirely, white liberal Methodist congregation. So far, so good! We had quite an extended “church shopping” period. Good luck!
I’m struggling with the same dilemma. DH is athiest, and I’m agnostic. He was raised with a strong religious background that believed firmly in spare the rod, spoil the child. Some pretty horrendous things were done to him in the name of religion. I was raised Catholic. DH is vehemently opposed to going to any type of church. I miss the sense of community and the traditions of my childhood, but do not miss the politics nor the constant pressure to conform.
I have no advice, just watching to see how others resolve this dilemma.
Honestly, i’d give the person with the bigger emotional investment in religious upbringing the task of doing it. You don’t know what you really believe and don’t have a strong attachment to it. That’s as much of a legit religious position as any other. If Mr. A. wants to pursue the religious ed issue, let him do it.
My aunt and uncle brought up 3 kids with the aunt taking the kids to church on Sunday and the uncle going golfing. The kids didn’t feel conflicted at all, merely understood the concept of different sets of belief, and that since they were kids they were being brought up Catholic, but that they could make up their own minds as adults.
You might check out some of the more mainline Protestants, and find a very liberal congregation. You could ask around or see who is sponsoring what in the paper.
We’re Catholic, but we go to the most liberal Catholic parish in town. Yesterday the priest was speaking out in favor of gun control. Big taboo subject in this conservative area, but he takes risks and that is why we go.
Congregationalists are really liberal usually.
And truly, we started attending church because my mother gave us only a loosely based religous upbringing. When my sister was in high school she became a born again, fundamentalist Baptist.
So we figured we would have them in a church we could at least explain. Now we go because of the community, but we started out the same place you did.
Firstly, oh my goodness, I am so sorry that Mr A got broadsided like that! With M seeing the crucifixion, I mean– that must have been horrifying for her, and horrifying for him to see her watch. I saw a passion play when I was eleven, and I got very upset by it. I had thought the sort of event M would see would be something more like a living nativity, very tableau-style and not much action. Eurgh.
Secondly, I’ll chime in with the commenters who observed that the Belief-O-Matic doesn’t necessarily tell you where you will be the most comfortable in the community setting. Apparently my beliefs are 100% Orthodox Quaker (I suspect I am far too socialist in my views for most conservative churches, which might very well explain why I have never found a church that feels completely right!) but from what I’ve read about the meetings themselves, I don’t think I would fit in at all.
If this is something you want to pursue with Mr A, you may just want to do some church shopping. That’s what I do when I move somewhere new; I look up churches in the area, make a shortlist, and try them out. One or two services are usually enough to at least give you a general feel of what you’ll be getting into, and whether or not it’s worth pursuing further.
I have heard that denominations tend to vary in their views by region, but I’ll go out on a limb with a recommendation anyway– I don’t know if your United Churches are anything like the ones we have up in Eastern Canada, but here, at least, they tend to me the most liberal of the Protestant denominations. In the area where I live right now, they’re also the most ethnically diverse of everything that’s available (though again, that may very well not be the case where you are). My friend’s father was a UC minister when he was alive, and the best way I can think of to sum up his sermons is “perfectly inoffensive.” It’s a very comfortable place to start!
De-lurking to say I think it would not be in anyone’s best interests for you to join or attend a church to counter balance what Mr. A does. If he plans to take the children to a church of his choice once a month, that leaves you three Sundays (or anytime, really) to teach your daughters about other religions and also your beliefs and values.
Reading your blogs, I’m sure you’ll convey both tolerance and respect for other’s beliefs with a strong conviction that no one should either be guilt-tripped or coerced into any ‘faith’ and that being agnostic or atheist is as valid and deserving of respect as any other choice.
As far as the grandparents are concerned, maybe a well thought out hand written note explaining that as parents you and Mr. A are going to teach the girls about religion, respect, sex etc. according to your beliefs in the most loving, non confrontation and least confusing way as possible so their cooperation and confident that you and Mr. A can do this would be greatly appreciated -You get the idea. Sending this note along with a little bouquet from the girls or a picture of the kids with grandparents might help.
I grew up UU and I am really happy about it. While I am not religious now – I found that have a good perspective on religion (I know the stories, etc.) but not the guilt or pressure. It felt so loose and free and it truly felt like everyone was accepted – huggers and non-huggers. I think it is a great place for children…
I’m a UU, and have been for the past 6 years, after being raised “loosely Christian,” discovering in my teens that I didn’t believe the theology, and spending most of my 20s not going to church at at all. Ironically, I started attending a UU church when I was living in Utah–or maybe not so ironic, as I found my beliefs under siege most of the time while living there.
Every year, our minister has an “open mike” sermon, where people can throw any question they want at him and he will answer. One person asked the old “How can we make our church more diverse ethnically?” question. The minister (who is a way cool guy, by the way, I really like him), said something along the lines of, well, we would probably have to add in more talk about Jesus; we would have to sing louder, and perhaps include more clapping and praising; we would probably have to be more socially conservative on issues such as abortion and sex education, and so on and so forth. The point being that most UUs are upper-middle to upper-class and extremely liberal, and those attributes tend to be distributed unevenly among racial and ethnic groups in this country. (That’s a fancy way of repeating that a majority of UUs are white). In my church (which is in a state in the Intermountain west), the majority of people are white, the next largest group is Asian (many of whom are kids adopted from Asian countries), and then a handful of African Americans and other groups. So, UU may be not what your family is looking for in terms of racial diversity. On the other hand, if you are looking for a church with a lot of diversity in terms of sexual orientation among its members, I think a UU church would be a good bet. I would assume that even in liberal Christian churches, there may not be many openly GLBT members in the congregation.
In terms of racial and ethnic diversity, the most diverse churches I have found out here in the west are urban Catholic congretations. However, the theology might not be what you’re looking for…
Quite an issue–good luck!
I took that quiz and it said neo-pagan or Quaker for my top two. My parents are Quaker and I just can’t do it. Way too much silence for me. I’m not sure where the pagan came from…I’m a very happy Methodist! : )
I’m curious – what do you want your girls to believe by the time they’re adults? Would it be okay with you if they were strongly religious? Or do you want them to share your views on it?
The nice thing about being pagan is how easily it fits into your life. Observing the 8 seasonal holidays can be as simple as preparing a symbolic meal and lighting some candles, maybe setting up a small altar. Or you can join a congregation and participate in rituals which typically involve some sort of introspection, which is a good thing to do now and then.
We do the UU thing, me, I’m the Director of Children’s Religious Education (yeah, Whoopee do)…but here is a thought, if you don’t like the one close to you and who says you have too, there is a chuch of the larger fellowship available online that ministers to families who for whatever reason (distance from a congregation) doesn’t attend a bricks and mortar church.
I am a HUGE fan of many of the materials available from the UUA etc.
Of course, as with any microcosm of society, there are always going to be problems of some kind.
BTW, although I am white (can I just say I hate that word but I can’t remember how to spell caucasian(?) right now) and I am a woman – I am not at all huggy, except with you know, my own family and some very select friends.
I tried United Church, but I kept having to pass through a door with words carved in about Jesus being my saviour, and I just couldn’t do it!!!!
Damn.
or rather damned.
UGH. What a nightmare situation. I too was raised very loosely Christian and don’t believe in it, which is why I’m married to a Jewish guy (I am Chinese-American). This makes for very tense religious conversations with both sets of parents. Luckily our parents acknowledge that religion is the parents’ right to teach (or not, in our case) but that doesn’t stop my mother-in-law from sending us a menorah every year (can’t throw them out, but the clutter is driving me nuts) or my mom from making a big deal out of my nephew’s christening and how she would like my daughter to attend (my husband joked that they’re going to try to get a two-for-one deal).
Religion is not something I care about very much, but it sure seems like I have to choose something or have choices forced upon me.
I go to my local UU church. It’s very small, and rents space at a Mason hall, so it’s not representative of a bigger church. I was raised UU also, but only went back this year (I’m 41). The stuff that bugged me as a kid is still there: the mostly white congregation, the people with really awkward social skills, the fuzzy thinking. The last one bothers me the most, and I joke about it, such as telling my husband that UUs cannot give driving directions. My friend said it can be hard to be in a group with benign good intentions, because sometimes you want to be actually seen (if that makes sense). There’s a lot of middle class privilege which people don’t seem to have thought much beyond. It can be irritating. And the human sexuality program in the 70′s was actually harmful for me and some of the other participants. (We’ve talked about it since.) I think it must be taught differently now, or at least I really, really, hope so. (I can give you more details on why it was bad if you want to email me directly.)
On the other hand, as I’ve gotten older, I’ve realized how much I got from the church as a child. I had a sense of community, I still do things with my parents’ church friends to this day. The only people I’m still in touch with from my childhood are kids from church, and some of them are still among my most favorite people. I have a strong belief that everyone has value, and I’m pretty sure I got that from the church, as well as my commitment to social justice. And I really like that the church says that there is a something transcendent, even if we don’t know exactly what it is. And learning about other world religions as a child has been really useful as an adult; my husband and best friend were raised as an atheist and in a cult, respectively, and I’ve seen them miss cultural religious references as a result.
And my daughter really likes going to church, having a church, hanging out with the kids, etc. I do mostly stay with her during the RE program, but I like the RE program, so it’s fun.
And what is up with Asians and evangelical Christianity? That also drives me nuts, although fortunately my parents don’t fall into that category.
Was there a ton of fake blood when they nailed Jesus to the cross? That would have been awesome.
I haven’t read the other comments yet but I grew up in a United Church of Christ church in Connecticut. It was uber-liberal but not in a hippie-dippie way. We had a female minister my entire childhood and each church is governed by the people who attend it — there is no “mandate” coming down from the top, every church is democratic and has yearly meetings to decide everything from what the minister will be paid, to what charities they will support. They brought someone from Planned Parenthood to our confirmation classes and showed us how to use condoms on a banana. Heh.
Also, the UCC has a campaign going on right now, something like, “All are welcome” or something to that effect, including openly gay people. There was a big controversy last year b/c some of the major networks refused to run the ad b/c of the religious right.
I myself don’t go to church, but I’ve often thought about whether I’d ever go back, and if I did, it would have to be to a UCC or some other similar faith.
BTW when I took that test, Liberal Quaker came out first and Reform Jew second.
I really wish the buddhist temples in our area were a little more active. They are either 1 of 2 types community centers for very recent khmer and vietnamese immigrants or ultra wacky yoga havens for middle aged white folks. I was used to attending temple in Toronto where it is more like a church with youth groups and organized groups. The UU in our area is ultra liberal and most of the members identify themselves as humanists or buddhists as well. It is very white though with a lot of adopted minority children. They have a buddhist fellowship, a knitting group and a “green” mission group. I am really biting my tongue with the new church (its nondenom)… its a little more conservative than I would like but the diversity, volunteer opportunities and youth activities make it appealing. The congregation is so diverse that I have met a lot of people who are more like me. Though… I may just have the kids join the chinese school for diversity purpose and start going to the UU.
I grew up Mennonite, a denomination that thinks it is appropriate to show pornographic images of people being burnt at the stake and tortured with Inquisition-era racks and thumbscrews and tongue clamps to children as part of their religious education. So I can really sympathize with Mr. A on his horror at seeing M watch the crucifixion play.
Like Shannon, I have experienced that mainline/liberal Protestants tend to choose their churches based on the kinds of communities they like; their theological beliefs are all over the map.
J and I were married by a UU. It bothered both sets of parents no end that there was no mention of God or Jesus during our ceremony. And yet I found the ceremony so much more spiritual than my first wedding which was a full Catholic Mass. Alas the quiz tells me I’m most compatible with Reform Judaism. Which didn’t actually surprise me.
Crap, looks like we’re along the same lines of thought.
1. Unitarian Universalism (100%)
2. Neo-Pagan (97%)
3. Secular Humanism (86%)
4. Liberal Quakers (84%)
5. Mahayana Buddhism (79%)
6. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (75%)
7. New Age (75%)
8. Theravada Buddhism (72%)
9. New Thought (62%)
10. Nontheist (59%)
Here’s how we resolved this in our household: DH takes DD, age 3, to church several Sundays a month. Presbyterian…whatever the more liberal branch of Presbyterianism is, not Cumberland. She goes to the church nursery, colors pictures or makes crafts related to Bible stories, and if weather is nice plays outside on the playscape. DD goes to the sanctuary for the church service. He is a registered (or whatever) member of the church & DD was just baptized in the church a few weeks ago, although we’ve been home from China with her for over 2 years. I attend several times a year, Christmas, Easter, you get the picture.
I was raised Catholic (still recovering, thanks), christened, confirmed, and took first communion in the church. I also had a father who got into all sorts of “alternative” belief systems as I moved through adolescence and basically forced the rest of the family to attend his “church” of the moment, which we all resented. Now I classify myself as an extremely liberal, non-denominational Christian (the Sermon on the Mount is perhaps my favorite Biblical passage). DH was raised Methodist in a southern state. We were married in a Presbyterian church in a city we once lived in and have been attending Pres. churches ever since. It was sort of our “compromise” between my Catholic upbringing and his Methodist one.
Our parents (the remaining 2 of them) have no thoughts on our kid’s religious/spiritual upbringing. DH wants DD to have a church background. I think it’s good for her to get a grounding in some sort of faith tradition, and since DD wants Jesus as part of the picture, Presbyterianism seems about as harmless as you can get these days. I do not belong to the church because of my aforementioned church issues and because the Pres. church in general does not allow gays or lesbians to be ordained. The particular church DH belongs to is quite white, although there are some multi-racial families who attend.
I know DD will develop her own set of beliefs and may or may not continue to affiliate with Presbyterianism or any branch of Christianity for that matter. A friend of mine who had no “religious” upbringing as a child but has felt a yearning to find a Xtian faith community has felt very much like an outsider because she knows nothing of Jesus, the Bible stories, yadayadayada. When I think of my friend, I know that I don’t want my daughter to feel so adrift as an adult should she wish to affiliate herself with some faith tradition. So in that sense, doing the church thing as a kid will at least give her some grounding and a place to set her feet, so to speak, as she figures out exactly what she believes.
Not sure I’m making much sense so I’ll close here. Good luck, I know it can be a tough issue.
Good God (no pun intended – har!) Is there anything more fraught than religion? Personally, I think it’s a mistake to add something as major as religion to your life to appease parents. And truthfully, it sounds to me like Mr. A is more about getting out of the uncomfortable and ongoing parent situation than exposing the kids to his deep, heartfelt beliefs. Which is *completely* understandable, but that doesn’t make it the right thing to do.
Can’t wait to hear what you decide in the end.
The only reason Mr. A says he’s Christian is because he loves the Chronicles of Narnia and cried when Aslam died.
Oy Vey! I would consider not doing a religion to placate your parents. I think it is TOTALLY fair to say “Hey, we felt this was not appropriate for her to go to” and discuss that you will be giving her what religion you feel she needs.
Religion is such a hot topic and dangerous too because even if you raise M & L with a Christian church, it might not be the “right” kind of Christian.
You know, at 4 I am not sure M needs to know about the crucifixtion…Ick
We are DOC (Disciples of Christ)- and very liberal in the we have the “all are welcome” motto- which besides reminding me a bit of Poltergeist is pretty cool- there have always been gays around and women ministers. I was raised DOC, and a very liberal DOC at that and never felt an urge to look further. Although in our new town I am less than thrilled with the one here- but there are 2 others to try before we give up.
I don’t want to introduce the snark, because I know there was a good heart behind this comment, but this kind of amuses me:
“Ours is also kind of white but not overwhelmingly… I’d say no more than 85-90%.”
We’re skipping the church thing altogether. We don’t believe, and while I want my kid to know about Jesus and Bible stories so she can understand the allusions in a lot of great English-language literature, there is plenty of time to learn that stuff in a “world religions” sort of way. I think it would be very confusing at a young age to try and be part of a community but then turn around and tell my child that I don’t believe what the community does. (When she’s of age she can believe whatever she wants, of course.) I think the UU thing is pretty cool if all you’re looking for is fellowship or a gathering place (we have an extensive friend network so I don’t feel a lack of that). But I wouldn’t want there to be any god talk, personally.
Have you read the book Parenting Without Belief? The subtitle is something about “raising caring, ethical kids without religion.” (Too lazy to Google.) I found it pretty inspiring! (And I don’t mean that ironically.)
I think you would do well to look into the Quakers. See what you can hook up with through http://www.quaker.org/. If you find the right community they are wonderful and open to all types.
Well, if Karen and Joybucket aren’t bringing their snakes, I guess I shouldn’t either.
Our church is very Jesusy, but it’s also very open to people who don’t make any particular profession of faith. It’s very white, but decreasingly so. If nothing else, it could make for a good blog post…
I suppose I should come right out of the closet and say that I actually grew up in the church with the crucifixion thing. You’re lucky — back in the 80s, they really did have lots of fake blood. From what I hear, they kind of keep it a little less gory. Still, it’s pretty intense for a 4 year old, especially if they or their parents aren’t expecting it.
I know of quite a few people who have had the same reaction — they’re either horrified or they feel like they’ve been baited-and-switched. Or both. Sigh. Sorry about that.
I do hope that you are able to figure out what kind of faith community (if any) is good for your family. Even as someone who believes, it’s difficult for me to decide what kind of religious ‘education’ my kids should have.
Good luck…