So Mr. A and I are continuing our due diligence on the move or don’t move thing. I have learned a very valuable lesson in this quest for information:
Where we live is insanely cheap for the amenities and lifestyle we have.
Or rather, big cities are insanely expensive. Seriously.
I have been researching San Francisco, Chicago, and Washington D.C. Chicago is the only one that seems to have housing available for people who are not willing to lay down $800k-$1million dollars to live close to where the work is.
Good lord, city people, how do you do it?
Even Chicago seems insanely expensive compared to here. It looks like we could MAYBE get a decent three bedroom condo there, in a close-in suburb with good schools for about $400k. (Which is about double our current mortgage and would be difficult to manage, but better than throwing away $2,000 a month on rent.)
Do you know what $400K buys you HERE?? A McMansion, that is what – if you are willing to go out a little farther in the suburbs. A 4,000 square foot new build monstrosity with a lovely new kitchen and 47 bathrooms in nationally ranked school districts.
Do you know what $400k buys you in San Francisco? A closet. 410 square feet three feet from a highway.
It isn’t like this should be such news to me, we lived in San Francisco for about five years. But we didn’t have a kid then and I didn’t have to take neighborhood safety and schools into consideration. Back then we were quite pleased to live in a shithole as long as we had enough money left over for sushi and wine. Ahh, the good old days.
For the record, I don’t want a McMansion. My little 1800sq. foot house is looking more and more appealing, the more time I spend on Realtor.com . Especially since I started doing some long-neglected repairs in case we have to sell it.
I know there is no where I want to live in the Bay area that we can afford (which is very disappointing). I found some possibile suburbs/neighborhoods in Chicago, but there are some other drawbacks that aren’t so appealing.
Is there anywhere affordable in the DC area where a family can live close to public transit, with good schools, in a walkable neighborhood?
Because right now, Denver* is looking more and more appealing even though we know nothing about it besides the fact that its cost of living is similar to here. And there is an almost-affordable chinese immersion private school there. And it isn’t an enormous metropolitan area.
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*The list of cities that have the specific job Mr. A might be interested in are as follows: Washington DC, Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York, Philly, Boston, (All too expensive,). Miami (too hot) Atlanta (too southern), Fort Worth (texas–too conservative) , Salt Lake City (too white, too religious, too conservative), Chicago (Maybe) and Denver.
I’ll chime in too, that Atlanta is not particularly Southern. Seems like half the population moved here recently from somewhere else (not usually somewhere in the South). The further out in the suburbs you go, though, the more southern it gets. Of course, it also gets cheaper. We live in a 5 BR, 3 Ba, 3000 sq ft (including finished basement) house that would sell for under 200K. I realize out this far isn’t where you’d want to live, but its where my DH works, so… Even intown, Atlanta has a very reasonable cost of living.
I’m a native of liberal Upstate New York. Sadly, I’ve been stuck in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area for 13 years…gah. I wouldn’t recommend DFW to a socially liberal person who grew up in a liberal region. While the suburbs are cheap and there are small liberal enclaves (with more expensive housing), the overall mood of the area is religious conservative.
Unfortunately, there isn’t much political or social tolerance here. My in-laws couldn’t keep a “Kerry for President” sign on their lawn, in one of Dallas’ more liberal areas, because it was continuously ripped it down or defaced. We had Darwin stickers on our cars. Both were ripped off and one of our cars was keyed. While I would sure like some more liberal friends in Texas, I have to say that any of the other cities on your list looks better than DFW.
I’m with Lisa F. : “Wandering Chopsticks…Just curious…where, praytell are these three-story, five bedroom homes on a half acre in Portland for $400K?”
We moved to Portland from Austin, TX (sigh…still missing it) and looked for a house for a YEAR with the naive thought that we could find a 3 BR for $250,000. We looked all over Portland, and might find some in far N PDX, but since I work in SW and didn’t want to commute through the city, we didn’t buy there. We ended up buying a 2-story, 2300 sf 3 BR in SW for $340,000–and we think we got a deal! And there are so many choices for schools…wish you were moving here, AmFam!
p.s. Lisa F., I love your blog and have read about your experience with the UU church–we go to First UU downtown, but I think you go to another, no?
I see I’m a bit late to the game — a ton of people have already talked about the DC area. But here’s my two cents. The schools are great in Montgomery County, MD, and Fairfax County and Arlington, VA. I’ve actually lived on both sides of the river, and my husband and I both prefer the Maryland side. It’s a little nicer, a little more Asian, a bit of a better commute because you don’t have to cross the river to get to the city, and I think a little more residential and spaced out than what you’ll typically find in Virginia (at least, close in to the city).
Not knowing current prices, when I last checked some good neighborhoods for raising a family that are also metro accessible and reasonably priced are Silver Spring, Takoma Park, Wheaton, Rockville/N. Bethesda. You can also go a little further out and drive in to the end of the metro line, so you could look at Germantown or Gaithersburg (both in Maryland).
In terms of a walkable neighborhood, one of the current trends is to create a community around a little mini-city-center. So there’s a bunch of cluster communities (mix of townhouses, apartments, and houses) centered around a bunch of shops. There’s also suburb cities like Bethesda and Silver Spring.
There’s also a Pottery Barn/PB Kids outlet in Leesburg, VA. Just thought you’d be interested in that!
Also, in my part of town I think we get a lot of diplomat turnover, and I think they rent out their places when they’re not there, if you wanted to try renting before finding a permanant place.
But yeah, it’s crazy expensive. We were lucky to get in while the market was still climbing. The townhouses in our neighborhood go for around $650-700k — although they’re a bit larger than your typical townhouse. I think ours is about 2400 sqft.
Boston is no where near as expensive as you think. Prices have fallen quite a big, there is a ton of inventory of forclosed homes, and you can go outside 128 (the inner beltway) and find nice housing in a good school discrict in the 300′s.
I live in Hyattsville, MD– about 1 mile from the DC border. I love it here. We’re in PG County which has a reputation for bad schools compared to Montgomery county (and some of them are) but some of them are good. Houses are cheap over here– by cheap I mean 250-450k which isn’t really cheap, but relative to other DC metro areas it is! I love this area and all it has to offer. Definitely diverse!
You might want to reconsider SLC. It’s not as scary as its reputation. It has its second extremely liberal Democratic mayor (the city’s last mayor, Rocky Anderson, challenged Fox’s Sean Hannity to a debate — the whole thing was very funny). The county of Salt Lake is less than 30 percent LDS, even though the entire state is majority Mormon. It’s more ethnically diverse than I would have ever imagined, and that’s due in part to the LDS church. Young Mormons go on missions all over the world, and lots of foreign-born converts and the merely curious end up coming to Salt Lake. (Lots of people also come to go to the U of U.) While that sounds like a whole lot of people coming to the holy city of a particular religion, what ends up happening is a whole lot of varied and ethnic restaurants and cultural events than you’d expect for a city of its size. It’s got a coffee obsession that rivals Seattle and of course it’s got all the outdoor adventure opportunities. The house is not as cheap as one would think (not SF or DC prices), however, but it doesn’t have the traffic problems of, say, Denver. The mountains attract a very young population, and that has great benefits, too.
Struggling with jetlag and skimming, but, as you know, I reluctantly gave up Minneapolis for Denver 3 years ago and am pleasantly thrilled. Denver is NOT conservative (Boulder is another planet) and is very family friendly and reasonable cost of living. Also, because so much of CO’s economy is based on international business, we weren’t hit as hard by recent economics as most of the country.
I periodically consider moving back to Chicago for family relationships and can also say a lot about that. My sister and bil lived in Lincoln Park and Oak Park for years but moved out to Lemont when they started their family for yard space, schools, neighborhood kids etc. Other sisters live within a mile of my parents-Flossmoor area-an option that people not from here are less familiar with-but right on the train line.
Happy to chat more about either option! Trying to download pictures and update the blog while my jetlagged baby naps! ~lmc
I also wanted to add, if you’re considering working for a non-profit, there are a lot to be found in the DC area. If they’re not located downtown, I have the general impression that many would be in Old Town Alexandria (VA).
So if you wanted to consider neighborhoods in that area, Old Town is great, though pricey; Arlington/Crystal City has a variety of living places with some cute houses; Springfield is residential and by the end of the metro; there’s an area called “Arlandria” (I think) which is between Arlington and Alexandria; Shirlington, also nice but pricey; and Falls Church which can have some good pockets and I think not too expensive.
Those parts are well-serviced by metro, but to drive in would require crossing a bridge, which can cause delays. I used to live just north of Springfield, and driving in would vary between 20 minutes and an hour, depending on traffic.
However, Virginia is mostly Republican. Northern Virginia leans Democratic, but they’re usually outweighed by the rest of the state.
What about Indianapolis? I know nothing about their diversity but I do know that there are some incredible houses and not all of them are a zillion dollars. I have family there that describe it as the “perfect small big city” it has all the amenities of a big city but with that mudwestern smaller town feel to it. That seems to be the feel that you’re going for?
You might want to visit Atlanta. It really isn’t a southern city at all, few people who live there are even from the south! It’s really a very nice place to live.
Hello, I’m a Chinese American and I grew up in Rockville, MD, a suburb outside DC (on the Red Line) and I can tell you that there are TONS of Chinese people (mostly Mandarin speaking and a large portion are from Taiwan and the Mainland) around the DC area (and many other Asians as well). There are multiple Chinese schools where practically every Chinese American kid goes on Saturdays (mostly against their will, haha) and tons of Chinese restaurants where Chinese people go and eat (so you know they HAVE to be good). The large Asian population also means that there are many Asian grocery stores around (there are 2 about a mile from my parents’ house and they’re right across the street from each other!). I’m now in Boston which has a decent sized Chinatown but I haven’t found a town around here that’s anywhere close to what’s around DC. Everytime I go back and visit I’m surprised to be reminded of how many Chinese people there are and all the new Chinese establishments that keep popping up. My aunt does a lot for the Chinese American community there and she works (maybe started?) with a program where parents can bring their Chinese adoptive kids to learn Chinese. The DC area is also very diverse internationally because of all the embassies.