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	<title>Comments on: Dutch video (additional info below)</title>
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	<link>http://american-family.org/2008/03/12/timing-is-everything/</link>
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		<title>By: OmegaMom</title>
		<link>http://american-family.org/2008/03/12/timing-is-everything/comment-page-1/#comment-75107</link>
		<dc:creator>OmegaMom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 06:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://american-family.org/2008/03/12/timing-is-everything/#comment-75107</guid>
		<description>[...] In the meantime&#8230;there&#8217;s talk of a Netherlands documentary about Chinese adoption, specifically that there are lots of folks these days who are having their kids kidnapped by government officials and dumped at orphanages.&#160; There are those who are appalled and those who think it&#8217;s old news.&#160; In the meantime, I sit here and realize that, while it was easier to think of someone reclaiming OmegaDotter when she was just a babe, she is firmly entrenched in my heart now and the thought of having someone tell me our adoption was null and void at this point would&#8211;yes&#8211;make me spend a lifetime and a fortune in court, fighting tooth and nail to keep her with us.&#160; That aside, I will write up some thoughts on the issue tomorrow. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] In the meantime&#8230;there&#8217;s talk of a Netherlands documentary about Chinese adoption, specifically that there are lots of folks these days who are having their kids kidnapped by government officials and dumped at orphanages.&#160; There are those who are appalled and those who think it&#8217;s old news.&#160; In the meantime, I sit here and realize that, while it was easier to think of someone reclaiming OmegaDotter when she was just a babe, she is firmly entrenched in my heart now and the thought of having someone tell me our adoption was null and void at this point would&#8211;yes&#8211;make me spend a lifetime and a fortune in court, fighting tooth and nail to keep her with us.&#160; That aside, I will write up some thoughts on the issue tomorrow. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: AmericanFamily</title>
		<link>http://american-family.org/2008/03/12/timing-is-everything/comment-page-1/#comment-75058</link>
		<dc:creator>AmericanFamily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 20:35:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://american-family.org/2008/03/12/timing-is-everything/#comment-75058</guid>
		<description>K2
Actually, it wasn&#039;t Brian St.uy who wrote that article. It was translated from this article, from what I think is a Buddhist publication: http://www.lingshh.com/4-a/4-20.htm

But for one minute just imagine that the scenario is true.  The orphanage decides to pay a finder fee for people who bring in babies to prevent them from being left to die.  

How would they advertise this fact?  Would they put it on the radio or in the newspaper: &quot;Hey! If you find any illegally abandoned babies, bring them to us and we will pay you!&quot;

Whether it is publicized or not, how is that not an incentive for someone to go looking for babies?  What are the odds that this freak occurance of stumbling across an abaondoned baby would happen to someone who just happened to know about the orphanage incentive program?  What is to stop someone from taking it upon themselves to go FIND some babies?  

To me, this has to be one of the most ridiculous ways to justify the fact that finders fees are not encouraging trafficking.  A finders fee would CREATE a system where rounding up babies is worthwhile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>K2<br />
Actually, it wasn&#8217;t Brian St.uy who wrote that article. It was translated from this article, from what I think is a Buddhist publication: <a href="http://www.lingshh.com/4-a/4-20.htm">http://www.lingshh.com/4-a/4-20.htm</a></p>
<p>But for one minute just imagine that the scenario is true.  The orphanage decides to pay a finder fee for people who bring in babies to prevent them from being left to die.  </p>
<p>How would they advertise this fact?  Would they put it on the radio or in the newspaper: &#8220;Hey! If you find any illegally abandoned babies, bring them to us and we will pay you!&#8221;</p>
<p>Whether it is publicized or not, how is that not an incentive for someone to go looking for babies?  What are the odds that this freak occurance of stumbling across an abaondoned baby would happen to someone who just happened to know about the orphanage incentive program?  What is to stop someone from taking it upon themselves to go FIND some babies?  </p>
<p>To me, this has to be one of the most ridiculous ways to justify the fact that finders fees are not encouraging trafficking.  A finders fee would CREATE a system where rounding up babies is worthwhile.</p>
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		<title>By: k2</title>
		<link>http://american-family.org/2008/03/12/timing-is-everything/comment-page-1/#comment-75057</link>
		<dc:creator>k2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 20:25:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://american-family.org/2008/03/12/timing-is-everything/#comment-75057</guid>
		<description>AmFam - 

I haven&#039;t read all of the comments on other online boards about the practice of SWI&#039;s paying babyfinders, nor do I personally want to defend it. I also fear that it might encourage people to &#039;find&#039; babies who have not been abandoned. However,  based on the half-dozen comments that I did read, I believe that at least some of the people who were defending the idea of small amounts of money changing hands if an abandoned baby were delivered to an SWI were justifying the practice as a way of preventing what Brian St.uy wrote that he witnessed during one of his trips to China. 

In a blog post he wrote on March 22, 2007, entitled &#039;Child Abandonment from the Inside III&#039; (sorry, there&#039;s no permanent link to the post. you can find it by going to the May archives for his blog here: http://research-china.blogspot.com/2007_03_01_archive.html) Mr St.uy says that he personally saw and attempted to help an 18-day-old baby girl who was abandoned at the gates of a Buddhist temple with a red note tucked in next to her. The child was not taken to an orphanage; the nuns at the temple told him that the SWI would charge the temple for the cost of the care of the baby. Instead the baby was allowed to freeze to death.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AmFam &#8211; </p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t read all of the comments on other online boards about the practice of SWI&#8217;s paying babyfinders, nor do I personally want to defend it. I also fear that it might encourage people to &#8216;find&#8217; babies who have not been abandoned. However,  based on the half-dozen comments that I did read, I believe that at least some of the people who were defending the idea of small amounts of money changing hands if an abandoned baby were delivered to an SWI were justifying the practice as a way of preventing what Brian St.uy wrote that he witnessed during one of his trips to China. </p>
<p>In a blog post he wrote on March 22, 2007, entitled &#8216;Child Abandonment from the Inside III&#8217; (sorry, there&#8217;s no permanent link to the post. you can find it by going to the May archives for his blog here: <a href="http://research-china.blogspot.com/2007_03_01_archive.html">http://research-china.blogspot.com/2007_03_01_archive.html</a>) Mr St.uy says that he personally saw and attempted to help an 18-day-old baby girl who was abandoned at the gates of a Buddhist temple with a red note tucked in next to her. The child was not taken to an orphanage; the nuns at the temple told him that the SWI would charge the temple for the cost of the care of the baby. Instead the baby was allowed to freeze to death.</p>
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		<title>By: NaechsteHaltestelle</title>
		<link>http://american-family.org/2008/03/12/timing-is-everything/comment-page-1/#comment-75047</link>
		<dc:creator>NaechsteHaltestelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:23:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://american-family.org/2008/03/12/timing-is-everything/#comment-75047</guid>
		<description>If you would like a full translation, I can make my husband do it.  He&#039;s Dutch and it&#039;s about time he did something helpful with that silly language of his.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you would like a full translation, I can make my husband do it.  He&#8217;s Dutch and it&#8217;s about time he did something helpful with that silly language of his.</p>
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		<title>By: Lawmommy</title>
		<link>http://american-family.org/2008/03/12/timing-is-everything/comment-page-1/#comment-75015</link>
		<dc:creator>Lawmommy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:12:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://american-family.org/2008/03/12/timing-is-everything/#comment-75015</guid>
		<description>Here is a link to the story that says that children already in the US might be at risk of being taken back to Guatamala:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/11/world/main3924200.shtml

On the second page of the article, it says, 

&quot;If fraud is proven, whatever the reason, Guatemala would invalidate the adoption and try to recover the child, even one that has already become a U.S. citizen. 

&quot;We would have to do that, according to the law,&quot; Gordillo said. 

Custody disputes with Guatemala for babies already in the United States would eventually land before a judge in the adoptive family&#039;s hometown, according to the U.S. Embassy.&quot;

I&#039;m curious, procedurally, how that would work.  It seems to me that Guatamala would have to file suit in the Federal Court that had jurisdiction over the area of the US the child is living in.  And I would think that the standard the judge hearing the case would have to consider is &quot;best interest of the child&quot; (this is standard for the consideration in custody issues, and I would think this would fall into the broad category of &#039;custody&#039; - but, there would also be the issue of whether or not the child obtained his or her citizenship through fraud - the more I think about it, the more a nightmare it seems - procedurally and emotionally.)

Gretchen</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a link to the story that says that children already in the US might be at risk of being taken back to Guatamala:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/11/world/main3924200.shtml">http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/11/world/main3924200.shtml</a></p>
<p>On the second page of the article, it says, </p>
<p>&#8220;If fraud is proven, whatever the reason, Guatemala would invalidate the adoption and try to recover the child, even one that has already become a U.S. citizen. </p>
<p>&#8220;We would have to do that, according to the law,&#8221; Gordillo said. </p>
<p>Custody disputes with Guatemala for babies already in the United States would eventually land before a judge in the adoptive family&#8217;s hometown, according to the U.S. Embassy.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m curious, procedurally, how that would work.  It seems to me that Guatamala would have to file suit in the Federal Court that had jurisdiction over the area of the US the child is living in.  And I would think that the standard the judge hearing the case would have to consider is &#8220;best interest of the child&#8221; (this is standard for the consideration in custody issues, and I would think this would fall into the broad category of &#8216;custody&#8217; &#8211; but, there would also be the issue of whether or not the child obtained his or her citizenship through fraud &#8211; the more I think about it, the more a nightmare it seems &#8211; procedurally and emotionally.)</p>
<p>Gretchen</p>
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