My dad is an extremely fiscally-conservative republican. I am, uh, not. Usually, we agree to disagree and avoid discussing politics because it only makes both of us annoyed.
I don’t know if he saw something on the news that made him agitated or what, but this morning my dad went off on a bit of a rant about the misuse of his tax dollars and the fact that he thinks he pays way too much money in taxes.
I also think that my tax dollars are wasted on some things, but my dad and I have very different ideas about what things are wasteful. (Me: war, corporate welfare. Dad: public transportation, anything that benefits anyone but him.)
The thing is, I just don’t mind paying my taxes. And, even worse in my dad’s eyes, I don’t feel like the government is taking to much of “my” money. If it were up to me to allocate my taxes myself, I would have different priorities than the current administration, but there isn’t much I can do about that other than vote for politicians that share my values.
At the end of the day, I feel like taxes are kind of like the rent I pay to live in the US and to enjoy the privileges of being an American citizen. Despite some things I don’t like about this country, most of the time I like living here. Paying taxes doesn’t bother me at all.
As a matter of fact, I would happily pay more taxes if it meant that everyone could have access to good healthcare, good nutrition, good education and good childcare.
When I said the above in response to my dad’s anti-tax tirade, he looked like his head (or at least that throbbing vein on his neck) was going to explode. He spent a good 10 minutes trying to convince me that I *do* hate paying taxes and that I pay too much. He could not wrap his head around the idea of it not bothering me.
My dad and I are just very different people.
Wow! That’s all this republican conservative can muster……wow. One reason I read your blog is to try and gain an understanding of those that think differently than I do. Not in an attempt to change my views, necessarily, but simply to understand the passion of the democratic liberal. This post amazes me. Really. Sounds like socialism to me.
Thanks for writing it and allowing me to be a part of your community.
Traci
My dad and I have the same issues, and a long list of tricks to avoid discussing them.
I have less luck with some of the conservative Republicans in my family who are my own age, but I’m getting better at walking away. I hope.
I, too, am very different from my family and I feel the same about taxes. In the end, paying taxes DOES help other people than those that pay by lessening the social divide.
When my husband suffered his traumatic brain injury, he had GREAT insurance, for a limited time (although it was a non-capped plan). The insurance decided they were tired of paying and was “good enough” and it was the so-called waste of our tax dollars that allowed him (and thousands of others) to continue rehab so they can be productive citizens instead of masses of flesh wearing diapers and drooling on themselves while people laugh and stare.
In most countries in Europe they pay just slightly more taxes than we do and they receive health care, college education, excellent train service, maternity leave, guaranteed 6 weeks of vacation a year, disability help… just for starters. It is a question of priorities. We could do all that if we didn’t spend so much money on other things.
My MIL is very similar. On our last trip up there, she complained bitterly that her tax dollars were being used to put sound barriers on the highway.
“Those people knew when they moved in there that it was loud!”
On the other hand, my aunt’s boyfriend is of the same ilk, and he believes in national healthcare. Because he doesn’t want to pay for healthcare if others are getting it for free.
I’m with you 100%. My parents are social conservatives, and although I try to hold my tongue around them, I find it very hard sometimes. At one point at Christmas, I just walked out of the room.
I read an article in the L.A. Times a while back, which made the point that we can either be Mississippi (low taxes, low standard of living) or Sweden (high taxes, high standard of living.) I would rather be Sweden, thank you.
Same here. It drives my dad and uncle nuts when I talk about paying taxes is part of being a good citizen. And yes, I believe we all are our brother’s keeper, and it’s in our best interest to help each other.
I hear ya. In the disabled community, it is practically a right of honor to brag that you DO pay taxes. So many of us can’t find employment as such and don’t. And those who do know how much our friends who don’t depend on us and others who do.
I think that people like your dad (and many others) just really have no idea how much they DO pay out of pocket. in regards to health care, food, corporate welfare, education, etc. in indirect ways. It actually costs us considerably more.
My best friend who is Canadian by way of Sweden has an unprecedented amount of freedom that we are unaccostomed to here because he has that social safety net. He is blind and has always worked, unlike most of the blind here. He has been able to do so because of a vast amount of rehabilitation and technology services that we don’t have here, healthcare that lets him move to different jobs with ease, and child care benefits that have helped both him and his (former) wife keep their careers going. His taxes are only slightly higher than ours, but his expenses are by far lower over all. Sometimes I think people just haven’t thought taxes/safety net through to its obvious conclusion.
(Oh, and all of us that are using public transportation such as myself are helping to to keep your dad’s transportation costs down. We are by far more efficient users of fossil fuels than he likely is. So tell him “your welcome” for me. ; ).
I completely agree with you. It amazes me that conservatives (not all of them) are so OK with living their lives blind to the suffering of others and not voting to take care of those less fortunate. Advocating that people have a right to health care and proper nutrition in the richest country in the world is not socialism – it’s having a conscious!
*Note from AmFam: I editted this comment very slightly to make it not a personal attack on another commenter. So far everyone is being respectful of other individuals. Let’s keep it that way.
I can’t claim a party because I’m all over the place…heck…every time I take one of those political quizzes I end up so far left I fall off the chart yet I don’t see myself that way so i stopped claiming and just look at the individual issues/conerns!LOL
As liberal as I am on this subject, I do have some concerns w/ some of the social programs that use up tax money…the older I get the more I realize that sometimes “helping the needy” is not throwing money at newly developed programs that don’t necessarily help out in the long run….I’d like to see it used for the big ticket items JB mentioned above (health care, better transportation systems for places outside NY!LOL, lower college tuition costs, conservation practices, disability programs that really work, etc.)…just think a lot is wasted in the smaller less thought-through “help the needy” social development type programs while we miss the big picture…and why those who are more conservative tend to feel like *their* money is wasted (don’t agree but I see how they can think that if they are looking at the smaller tax-biting programs)
I too see paying taxes as being a good citizen…sometimes people just don’t realize how much they could benefit if we would pay a little more but also get a lot more in return.
This sounds *exactly* like my parents. The thing is, I can’t see a way to get around the basic premise that separates us to talk about it constructively; there’s way too much bitterness involved in how they feel cheated by someone. We’re a military family and so we get a lot more of a break on taxes, and I’m really grateful for it based on our income, but I’m with you: I’d be willing to pay more than we do to help pay for those services.
yup, same here.
I think of taxes somewhat similarly to your other commenters, but my main POV is that…well…hey, *I* and *my family* get things from taxes. Stuff like an amazing network of highways. Stuff like the development of the internet (yah, it was *our tax dollars at work* that got it all started). Stuff like, oh, professional police force, professional fire fighters, professional air traffic controllers. Even–yes!–even a professional, trained military (though not the way it’s being used these days). Fifty kazillion detailed topographic maps, courtesy of USGS. Teflon and velcro, courtesy of NASA, plus an amazing amount of science and adventure. Public health measures.
It’s not perfect, no. But overall, I think I get my money’s worth out of the taxes I pay.
Yes–I don’ t understand people who feel that the government is taking “their” money–if we had to pay for all public and social services on our own, it would amount to a lot more than, say, 30% of our yearly income (unless you’re Bill Gates, that is!). To wit: libraries, sidewalks, roads, snow removal, garbage removal, repair and maintenance of public utilities, public schools, tuition subsidies for in-state colleges, public transportation, Medicaid so that those of us who pay private insurance are not even more burdened by costly ER visits than we already are, given the large numbers of “working poor” folks in the U.S., parks and rec, public festivals, “free days” at museums, zoos, etc., and I’m sure there are about 500 more things that we all benefit from that I can’t think of at the moment.
Now, I would not say that I *like* paying taxes, but I certainly like what I get in return, and you can’t have one without the other! I’m also enamoured by efficiency, and I know that it’s way more efficient to have a bunch of people each contributing a little to get a lot, instead of a few people contributing a lot to get a little–just basic logic.
Yes! What you said, AmFam. And what OmegaMom said. It also continues to amaze me that many conservatives want government out of our lives, except for in our bedrooms and at our doctor’s offices.
Several years ago, when the republican governor took over in MN, and slashed taxes and thus programs immediately, my organization organized a campaign to educate people about infrastructure. The look on my dad’s face when he came to visit and saw all of the yard signs “happy to pay for a better MN,” and I explained to him that it was a campaign against cutting taxes? Priceless. It wasn’t just a handful of people-the yard signs blanketed the cities (though I think they had less impact in the suburbs). He was dumbfounded.
Now that I live in a low tax state? I really feel it in terms of what’s missing in the community. ~lmc
I feel similarly – I don’t *like* paying taxes, but I don’t *mind* paying taxes. It’s a hard concept for the Republican half of my extended family to understand.
I second what Angela said, I don’t claim any particular party because I am all over the board! On some issues I am far more conservative than the average, but on others (health care being a big one) I am decidedly liberal. It comes of being Canadian, I guess
I do admire your willingness to boldly state that you don’t mind paying taxes; I am much more likely to steer away from the subject simply to avoid debate, but I feel the same way. I am too grateful for all we get from our taxes to want to see everything privatised, no matter how annoyed I might get at the allocation of the money itself. Personally, it’s not the paying of them I mind, it’s the sudden panic that “ohmygoodness it’s That Time of Year Again, how does it alwasy sneak up on me?!” and my subsequent rush to avoid paying penalties
THAT is the only part of taxpaying that really bothers me, lol!
Completely agree — I think you get what you pay for — if we want to live in a clean, safe, well-maintained, socially stable country, we need to pay for it. I just wish the current administration wasn’t taking my hard-earned dollars and giving it to their corporate buddies or paying for a war I have never supported. And honestly this “mortgage relief” bill is going to make my head explode with apparently about 8 times as much money going to home builders (who already made a fortune and contributed to this mess) than will go to homeowners. Bleh.
Presumably, your dad went off on it because it’s tax time? I have no conflict with my family. We’re all happy to pay our taxes, even when distressed about what it gets spent on (i.e. the war, paying people who write memoirs saying it’s OK to torture people . . .). But, my biggest beef is folks not understanding how much of the taxes get spent on things that benefit them (aside from wanting to make sure safety nets are available for others).
We’re owed a big refund, and I told my husband that he’s not allowed to loan it to the federal government
for the next year, though.
When I hear people complain about paying their taxes I like to ask then which of *their* government services they would prefer to do without. Roads? Garbage service? Safe drinking water? Hmm… public safety then? How ’bout Federal deposit insurance on their bank accounts? Take yer pick.
If you’re looking for a lovely Christmas gift for the father you could always get him the official ‘Death and Taxes’ poster. http://www.thebudgetgraph.com/ It’s a visual representation of federal discretionary budget. (Far more interesting than it sounds) Check it out.
I’m always amazed by people who get so upset about paying taxes. As a social worker I see what some of their tax dollars pay for–but trust me, it’s not enough to really make a dent in this country’s social woes. I also live in a high-tax state and wouldn’t go anywhere else to live. I have relatives in areas of the country where property/state income taxes are much lower. I’m not sure what they have gained living where services are almost non-existant. In other words, I’ll happily pay my taxes.
We live in Canada. We pay high taxes. Yes, some of the money is wasted, that’s inevitable. However, the money does help a heck of a lot of people who need it and I’m okay with that. I have a friend with a disabled son…my tax dollars help her. Without my tax dollars, I’m sure she and her husband would now be homeless and jobless and their son would not have received the care he needs. I’m happy to pay some tax dollars to allow every mother to be at home with her new baby for 6-12 months, for every child to get an education and health care. Yeah, so I could get a fancier car and a fancy vacation for myself, maybe a bigger house… who the hell cares. I’d rather know that every child has health care and other services that others who are not as fortunate as us may not otherwise have access to. I do think of our country as a community and I think we have a responsibility to each other…yeah, some take advantage, no system is perfect, but this is as good as we have for now.
Julie
I have to say I agree with you. I have no problem paying taxes…thankfully my parents agree with me…I’m not sure if I could handle your situation.