Thanks for all the comments on that last post. I have been shaking my head about that situation all weekend. In the interest of fairness to the kids and the other parents in the class, a few clarifications:
- The kids are mostly rowdy during the “down time” portions of class, not during the instruction portion. The handstands were going on before class technically started, as were the horse-back riding things. During instruction, they are usually attentive, but sometimes they get a little too excited because they are having fun. (Which is preferable to not having fun!)
- M has not been the model of good behavior either. Her primary fault is getting too involved in pre-class Nintendo DS games and discussions with some of the bigger kids and not paying attention when the teachers say it is time for class. She is now on a very restricted DS-play guidelines (i.e. must turn it off within 10 seconds of when I tell her to or she loses it the next day/class)*.
- I should have been clearer that the majority of the time the kids are not actually BAD. They are just testing limits and being silly now that they are more comfortable with the class, the teachers and each other. Unfortunately, when they test the limits, there aren’t really any repercussions if their parents don’t keep them in line so they tend to get carried away. The good news is there aren’t really any bad seeds in the class. Just standard rowdiness and silliness, most of the time. I think I made it sound worse than it actually is.
As Tongu Momma said, I also strongly believe in demonstrating the importance of respecting ALL adults or authority figures, even if I/my kids disagree with them. How can the teachers teach effectively if the parents feel free to meddle in every decision? How will the kids learn that they are not the boss of the world if we constantly undermine other authority figures? They may as well learn now that there will always be people telling them to do things they don’t necessarily want to do or like. Tough Shit. Part of being a successful member of society is figuring out what the rules and expectations are in a given situation and learning to work within them. They also need to take responsibility when they screw up.
Take, for example, the day the kids almost made the teacher cry. Even though M was not the kid who caused the problem, after class I made her apologize to the teacher. I made her apologize for being too excited and getting carried away AND I made her apologize for not helping her classmates remember to follow the rules. On the way home, we had a good conversation about mob mentality and social responsibility (in 1st grader language, of course.) In the long run, I hope conversations like that will help my kids learn to step back from the group and remember their values.
I certainly don’t want them to learn that if they turn on a few tears, I will call the teacher and demand they change the rules to protect their pwecious self esteem. It is about teaching our kids tolerance. Not only tolerance for different cultural values, but tolerance for discomfort and things they don’t like. I don’t mind saying that learning that kind of tolerance is part of my bigger plan to get the kids to one day move out of my house. They need to tolerate a JOB one day so they can support themselves.
The issue of tolerance is also especially important when we are talking about my kids and cultural issues. I have already started talking to M about being ready for stares and embarrassing questions on our trip to China. The trip is over a year away and we are already role-playing how she will respond to those situations. The world isn’t going to bend to our idea of good manners, nor can we expect them to not gawk at our unusual (to them) family.
We are citizens of the world and we have to meet the world on their’ terms, not ours. Learning to be respectful, even when you don’t like it is especially important if you are a smart privileged kid or if you are a kid who is different in some way. Both my girls will be in both of those categories whether they like it or not, so they need to learn to suck it up.
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*In an ideal world, I wouldn’t let her have her DS at all, but she originally got a DS because many of the big girls in the class had one. She was 2-3 years younger than some of the bigger girls and wasn’t relating well to their big-girl social stratification (she didn’t get it), so bringing her DS gave her some instant social capital in the class. She is much happier to go to class now and the big girls talk and play with her, so we continue to work on a compromise on that issue. (I know I am opening the door to criticism of my parenting here, but it is ok because I feel good about how the choices have turned out. It is a totally different issue than the other ones, but one I have been thinking about.)
The kid-management skill is a huge issue. I’m co-leading a girl scout troop, and I’ve now understood how easy it is for basically good kids to get wildly out of control, in a way that impairs one’s ability to get anything productive done. When you mix together a few kid’s behavior + the group mentality + the inability of some to work when others are loud/rowdy, things can spiral quickly. It’s not something I really understood, before seeing it in action. And, in a girl scout troop, the tools to manage are even fewer (since you’re really just another mom). People who are leading a group need to have some guidance in this kind of management. Girl Scouts offers it, and it is somewhat useful, in our council. I’m guessing the Chinese school teachers haven’t been given that feedback on managing an American classroom, and that’s another place to work on things.
(And, I agree that the leaders have to have the support of the parents. If they don’t, the class can quickly become unmanageable. With basically good children it won’t become horrible, but it will become a chaotic playdate, instead of a learning experience).
Oh, and in GS, one of the tools to getting all the parents on the same page is to have other parents lead sessions of their own. Then, they get their own understanding why it’s not OK if one kid wanders off to the corner to play with the toys while instructions are being given to the whole group, and are more likely to be supportive when they see their child’s behavior being corrected.
Of course, that only works when all the kids are basically willing (want to participate in the activity, and aren’t being forced) and neurotypical (don’t have attentional/social issues that make their behavior non-compliant).
I think a lot of parents don’t realize how much it will BENEFIT their child for the child to behave well–they are so stuck on thinking it’s about the child’s “rights” or needs vs. the teachers or parent’s.
I have kids 6 to 16, and I can see clearly how it has benefited them that they are well-behaved, polite, and able to control themselves when needed. They get invited to do lots of things because other kids’ parents don’t dread having them around and know them to be reliably well-behaved, their teachers appreciate and enjoy them and always say so, etc.
To me, the fact that people are always glad to see you and treat you as a capable, civilized being does more to build a kid’s self-esteem than never being reprimanded for doing the wrong thing.
“They need to tolerate a JOB one day so they can support themselves” Heck yeah…this is where I’m breaking away from my own cultural expectations…I don’t want mine in the house at 30…I got things to do!LOL!!!
Both of my kids have DSs (sp?) and I have one as well. They are really wonderful for things like long car rides, sitting in the doctor’s office, etc.
I play mine (whatever game I am currently addicted to) – at lunch time. It helps me relax and try to have a few minutes where I am not wound up and worrying about my clients.
I say this because, anyone who wants to criticize your parenting for allowing your kid to have a DS…well, they can think what they want, but they are enjoyable, useful and helpful when they aren’t a crutch.
Prepping for the staring is a good thing. I didn’t talk with Em a lot about it before we left to meet her brother and oh my, the staring was intense. It was so hard for her, my quiet, reserved girl! Most of the time she would just put her hands over her eyes so she didn’t have to feel all the eyes on her. I’ll know to role play before we visit again.
Exactly… I have to constantly remind myself that that the world will not bend to the Tongginator (including her special needs). She has to learn to bend without breaking. And THAT is one of the major challenges in parenting. I mean, if we want our children to move out of the house at some point, they’re gonna have to learn to hold down a job. Heh.
Wow! Great post. The life lessons you are teaching your children are invaluable.
we’ve seen some stratification in my daughter’s gymnastics class. The class is for 6-12, but they let her in at 5 because she’s able to do all the moves. The next oldest girl is 7. Most of the kids in the class even go to our charter school, but they wouldn’t give her any attention in gymnastics until Holly asked the oldest to be nicer.
Oh my stars, you are hilarious! I just found you from Jocelyn’s “Speaking of China” blog and quickly added you to my Google reader feed. Looking forward to your posts!